ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[SammyOES]

But by staying silent if they're completely blameless means they risk losing a lot of future customers.  It just seems weird to me that they're taking it so quietly if they really have no share of the blame themselves.

Edit: I'm not saying they're not blameless either. I just find the idea that they're a defenseless public company strange. But I get that these things are full of politics and internal context that we'll just never know. So just because I don't understand doesn't mean they're not acting totally rationally.

[robdrimmie]

Still have my fingers crossed opening gets bumped to Spring 2019; absolutely do not want opening day to be in the winter (so gross!!).  Have been dreaming of this day for years, we don't need it ruined by having it happen in a snowstorm.

I disagree with this quite a bit. I'll be a regular user of the LRT in the winter months, and I want it as soon as possible. If the system is ready to go holding off for more months for aesthetic reasons makes no sense to me. Let's get this thing going so I and other users can benefit from it!

Also I like snow, I don't think that ruins it at all. Terribly snowy days are the best days to take advantage of transit. And December is usually often clear and bright.

[Canard]

Rob: You can disagree all you want - I shared my personal desire, I didn’t state a fact. I said I want a spring opening, not a winter one. I never suggested simply allowing the system to sit idle - I said I kind of hoped things dragged on which would necessitate pushing the launch back until spring.

Sammy: You got your wish regarding a response:

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local-new...rns-970759

[ijmorlan]

But by staying silent if they're completely blameless means they risk losing a lot of future customers.  It just seems weird to me that they're taking it so quietly if they really have no share of the blame themselves.

Edit: I'm not saying they're not blameless either.  I just find the idea that they're a defenseless public company strange.  But I get that these things are full of politics and internal context that we'll just never know.  So just because I don't understand doesn't mean they're not acting totally rationally.

Good comment! I will mention that Bombardier definitely does deserve a significant fraction of the blame — all those production problems were on them, not anybody else — but as far as I can tell this signalling issue is Region/Metrolinx/Ontario. It’s interesting to speculate what would have happened if Bombardier had got its production together on schedule — they would have had complete vehicles in the second half of 2016; would the Region/Metrolinx have moved faster on making sure the signalling was together, or would we have just had a fleet of vehicles sitting in the OMSF with no signalling integration?

[urbd]

Still have my fingers crossed opening gets bumped to Spring 2019; absolutely do not want opening day to be in the winter (so gross!!).  Have been dreaming of this day for years, we don't need it ruined by having it happen in a snowstorm.

I disagree with this quite a bit. I'll be a regular user of the LRT in the winter months, and I want it as soon as possible. If the system is ready to go holding off for more months for aesthetic reasons makes no sense to me. Let's get this thing going so I and other users can benefit from it!

Also I like snow, I don't think that ruins it at all. Terribly snowy days are the best days to take advantage of transit. And December is usually often clear and bright.

I 100% agree with you. I live on the line, and I am planning to use the system every single day to go to work and home. I REALLY hope that things don't drag out and system launches as soon as possible, even if it's February 1st. In fact, I wish they would launch the system with trains at any frequency... even one every hour with the iXpress 200 running wouldn't be SO bad.

[Canard]

The Region has consistently said that they will not launch with at least 12 trains here. The reason for that is if you launch with anything less, and have bad service frequency, people will give it a try and realize it's crap and never use it again. So, you have one shot to give a good impression - and that's what they're waiting for. And I think it's a good choice.

What I do wish they'd do, though, is have an Open House where they at least give rides up and down the test track on a single train. They did this in Vancouver for the SkyTrain.

[Canard]

Wait, I know this. The sink was picked first, and the rest of the kitchen was built around it. Sure, the faucet was late, and was found to be defective, but why wasn't the sink installed already?

What?

Let's try this again. Story time!

A company (ML) decides to have 182 houses built by a builder (BBD).

ML: Hey, can you build us 182 houses?
BBD: Sure!
ML: Awesome - can we customize them, too?
BBD: Yep! Just tell us what you'd like.
ML: Great. We need them by 2020.
BBD: No problem.

:: time elapses ::

BBD: Hey, are you going to tell us what you'd like?
ML: No, just build two houses first however you normally would and we'll go through and pick out what we like and what we don't like.
BBD: That's... that's not how this works.
ML: No but just do it
BBD: ...how about you just tell us what you want?
ML: But no because I don't know what I want
BBD: ...
ML: ...

:: meanwhile! Someone else comes along and says they don't like houses, and so they're cutting the project and so only half the houses are needed. ::

:: meanwhile 2! ROW wants some houses. ::

ROW: Hi ML! Can we take 14 of them off you, we'll just buy them from you - is that cool?
ML: Sure!

:: time elapses ::

ROW: Hey BBD, we bought some houses from ML that you're building. Can I haz?
BBD: Hey there, no - they haven't told us what kind of appliances they want, how many floors, what kind of shingles, or anything, really. All they said is they want us to leave some space, because they're inventing a dishwasher from scratch (instead of just buying one).
ROW: Oh...

:: more time elapses ::

BBD: Hey, your friend ROW needs their houses. They've got people moving in. How's that dishwasher coming along?
ML: We haven't started it yet.
BBD (to ROW): Hey, you're on your own for a dishwasher.
ROW: Oh crap.

:: more time elapses ::

ROW: Hey, we found a standard dishwasher that'll fit in the non-standard width you were asked to leave under the counter!
BBD: Awesome.
ROW: Can we put it in ourselves?
BBD: Sure, but it'll void your warranty...
ROW: ... oh. Is it hard?
BBD: Yeah.
ROW: ...can you just do it?
BBD: Sure.

:: more time elapses ::

ML: BBD IS LATE WITH EVERYTHING EVER
ROW: YEAH WHAT THEY SAID. YEAH.

[robdrimmie]

Rob:  You can disagree all you want - I shared my personal desire, I didn’t state a fact. I said I want a spring opening, not a winter one. I never suggested simply allowing the system to sit idle - I said I kind of hoped things dragged on which would necessitate pushing the launch back until spring.

Sammy: You got your wish regarding a response:

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local-new...rns-970759

I never suggested otherwise. I was sharing my personal opinion. I don't understand why that should trouble you.

[SammyOES]

I don't really see the Bombardier response as them saying they're not responsible.

There's this sentence: "The vehicles have progressed to the satisfaction of the Region of Waterloo and as such, we will now begin to install the additional equipment necessary to have the required functionality for passenger service", but that doesn't tell us at all about the causes/reasons for the delay up until now. Its ambiguous and could just as easily be read as "We were delayed building the trains, but now we've caught up so we can move to the next phase".

I also get what you're saying about the special equipment, but its not clear to me (and maybe you have other/inside information) that that was THE blocker.

Even in the best case scenario for Bombardier it looks like they deserve some blame because they're a manufacturer signing a major contract and they've agreed to multiple schedules that have been delayed. If there was a dependency that should have been clear from the onset when they agreed to a schedule.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. I definitely agree that it would be nice for the media to actually dig into these stories and tell us more details than the simple story and narrative.

[tomh009]

Even in the best case scenario for Bombardier it looks like they deserve some blame because they're a manufacturer signing a major contract and they've agreed to multiple schedules that have been delayed.  If there was a dependency that should have been clear from the onset when they agreed to a schedule.

The dependency may have been very clear -- but that doesn't mean it was made public.

Bombardier was unquestionably late completing the trains, but they are now effectively done. The remaining delay is Metrolinx, Grandlinq and/or the region.

[KevinT]

Story time!

A company (ML) decides to have 182 houses built by a builder (BBD)...

[ijmorlan]

Wait, I know this. The sink was picked first, and the rest of the kitchen was built around it. Sure, the faucet was late, and was found to be defective, but why wasn't the sink installed already?

What?  

Let's try this again.  Story time!

A company (ML) decides to have 182 houses built by a builder (BBD).

[....]

:: more time elapses ::

ML:  BBD IS LATE WITH EVERYTHING EVER
ROW:  YEAH WHAT THEY SAID.  YEAH.

Mostly awesome! I do have to quibble that there should be an intermediate step somewhere where Bombardier says that a work stoppage has delayed things, then that their Mexican foundation contractors are no good, then that they’ve brought in new management, then something about the electrical … point being, I don’t believe it’s disputable that some of the earlier delay is due to Bombardier. But yeah, at this point, everything I’ve seen says it’s Metrolinx/Region.

[Square]

So the Kitchener Today article says we will receive the first of the vehicles that will receive the special equipment installed in Kingston in late August. So will this be the first vehicle to have this equipment?, or will any of the vehicles we have here have this equipment installed here sooner? Thank you.

[trainspotter139]

So the Kitchener Today article says we will receive the first of the vehicles that will receive the special equipment installed in Kingston in late August.  So will this be the first vehicle to have this equipment?, or will any of the vehicles we have here have this equipment installed here sooner?  Thank you.

It would be the first vehicle delivered from Kingston with the equipment. They'll be installing the equipment on trains here too.

[KevinL]

Ion trains being checked after welding defect found on Toronto streetcars

Most of Toronto's new streetcars built by Bombardier must be sent back for repairs, and now Waterloo Region's light rail vehicles are getting a close look.

"The Region of Waterloo is aware that some of the TTC's streetcars require corrective work," TJ Flynn, regional manager of Ion community relations, said Wednesday in an email.

"At this point, Bombardier is examining the region's light rail vehicles to determine if a similar issue is present on our vehicles."

Flynn did not know when the region would find out if its Ion vehicles would also need repairs due to welding problems.