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Cycling in Waterloo Region
(05-03-2018, 09:23 AM)creative Wrote: So because there was only one car parked there when the photo was taken a mean that nobody ever parks there. With that reasoning I can say that I travel the Ottawa roundabouts quite frequently and have never seen a cyclist going through there so therefore nothing needs to be done to improve it for cycling.

Please try to understand before responding. There is a reason why I said it is a “sample” of how valuable the parking is, and mentioned the fact that the StreetView image shows more cars. Additionally, there is a surrounding context in which way too much parking is needed; and by “way too much” I mean in a sense that can be defined in Economics, where it’s safe to say that if so much of something is supplied that it swamps the demand even at a zero price as is the case with much of the parking in this city, then it’s “too much”. It’s not just a few bicycle-riding urban pinkos and hipsters who think there is too much parking; it’s anybody who has any appreciation at all for basic economics concepts. In other words, the very limited sample provided by the two data points (overhead view and StreetView) happens to match up with what is already known.

Additionally, even if the parking were always full, the total number of cars that could be parked along that stretch is under 30 even being generous. Inconveniencing those 30 people might be a reasonable price to pay for having a proper bicycle lane.

Finally, may I assume that because you said absolutely nothing about my idea to allow contraflow bicycle traffic without explicit signage that you approve? You only responded to the by-the-way side note to my main point.
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(05-03-2018, 08:36 AM)plam Wrote: I heard that the mega roundabout at Ottawa and Homer Watson is still pretty scary to cross, because there are like 3 lanes of cars in each direction, so even if one lane entering the roundabout yields, you can get flattened by the subsequent lanes. Should there be a beg button controlling access to the roundabout? Is there a better solution?

I cross the roundabout by foot there on a pretty regular basis, especially now that I'm cycling again most days. I walk my bike through it on the sidewalks rather than ride on the road though.

During rush hour periods, I feel quite safe. Traffic is typically backed up enough that the cars are stopped or moving very slowly, and I can make eye contact with all the drivers. It does usually take a minute or two for everyone to figure out that a pedestrian is trying to cross, and I have no shame about standing in front of someone who has stopped until the next lane is clear.

I think now that construction has settled people are following normal conventions and it's the same as crossing at any other 2+ lane roundabout in town.

Anecdotally, there's usually another pedestrian in the pair of roundabouts, but I haven't been keeping meaningful count so that's very subject to confirmation bias. I've been surprised how many pedestrians use the system, though there has typically been a low to moderate amount of foot traffic in the area so it probably shouldn't be that surprising.

The point where I find it to be most difficult is crossing at Alpine, specifically from the Lowe's corner to the McDonald's corner, when there is a bus or truck or other large vehicle in the right lane, especially at night. I've walked back from the intersection to encourage such large vehicles to move on. I have no visibility, and I have no confidence that drivers will see a stopped vehicle and conform. Most will, but I'm not going to take that gamble.
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(05-03-2018, 10:37 AM)robdrimmie Wrote:
(05-03-2018, 08:36 AM)plam Wrote: I heard that the mega roundabout at Ottawa and Homer Watson is still pretty scary to cross, because there are like 3 lanes of cars in each direction, so even if one lane entering the roundabout yields, you can get flattened by the subsequent lanes. Should there be a beg button controlling access to the roundabout? Is there a better solution?

I cross the roundabout by foot there on a pretty regular basis, especially now that I'm cycling again most days. I walk my bike through it on the sidewalks rather than ride on the road though.

During rush hour periods, I feel quite safe. Traffic is typically backed up enough that the cars are stopped or moving very slowly, and I can make eye contact with all the drivers. It does usually take a minute or two for everyone to figure out that a pedestrian is trying to cross, and I have no shame about standing in front of someone who has stopped until the next lane is clear.

I think now that construction has settled people are following normal conventions and it's the same as crossing at any other 2+ lane roundabout in town.

Anecdotally, there's usually another pedestrian in the pair of roundabouts, but I haven't been keeping meaningful count so that's very subject to confirmation bias. I've been surprised how many pedestrians use the system, though there has typically been a low to moderate amount of foot traffic in the area so it probably shouldn't be that surprising.

The point where I find it to be most difficult is crossing at Alpine, specifically from the Lowe's corner to the McDonald's corner, when there is a bus or truck or other large vehicle in the right lane, especially at night. I've walked back from the intersection to encourage such large vehicles to move on. I have no visibility, and I have no confidence that drivers will see a stopped vehicle and conform. Most will, but I'm not going to take that gamble.

FWIW I believe most of the "sidewalks" there are actually MUTs where cycling is permitted.  Of course, legally crossing is not, because of course it isn't.

That being said, not that I cross often, but sometimes I ride through, and sometimes I walk.  I never trust drivers to stop, but I am more than willing to put my bike in the middle of the lane and force drivers to stop.

As for ped traffic, yes, there are actually people who do it.  My partner was walking through there daily for 8 years until just recently (after she was hit, she thought a change was in order).  Drivers have this perception that "nobody" uses it...but that's really more of a statement about how drivers very often don't notice pedestrians who are there.
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(05-03-2018, 08:34 AM)plam Wrote:
(05-03-2018, 07:18 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: Amusingly, the Google overhead view shows exactly one car parked in the stretch, which gives a sample of how valuable that parking actually is — i.e., barely at all. To be fair the StreetView shows more stored cars.

Anyway, one-way streets that are minor enough not to have lane markings should allow contra-flow bicycle traffic even without any specific signage. The bylaw should simply be amended to say that one-way provisions don’t apply to bicycles wherever there are no lane markings. As signs are replaced, “Bicycles Excepted” can be added. And the traffic department then needs to make contraflow bicycle lanes standard when a road is upgraded to have lane markings. Also they should review every existing one-way road to see if contraflow lanes should be installed (hint: well-nigh everywhere).

Yup. Makes sense at Ahrens and many other places too. This is a thing in many other parts of the world. Could be here as well.

Something like this (but with lane markings)?

   
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We have something like that at Waterloo City Hall!
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I've never used it, but I think Nyberg south of Ottawa has a contraflow bike lane.
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Yes, both Nyberg and CoW City Hall have contraflow lanes.

But I don't think that's what's being proposed, basically just making the one way prohibition on the road, only apply to cars.

This is done on almost every single small one way street in the netherlands:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@52.0919422,5...312!8i6656

"uitgezonderd" essentially means "except" as far as I understand.
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So if all parking spaces are not filled 100% all of the time then we have too much parking? Can we also say then that if I rarely see bike lanes being used that we have too many bike lanes? I never called you names as you so implied or said anything negative regarding your bike lane suggestion. I park in that location if a spot happens to be available when I am going DTK.
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I received an update today about the Uptown streetscape project, including bike lanes.

Quote:On Monday May 14th, work is scheduled to begin to complete all of the "surface
amenities" including the new bike lanes, decorative paving stones and planter pots, new
street trees, as well as benches and garbage receptacles.

Overall, the streetscape work will require 6-8 weeks to complete. Some of the work will
be done during overnight hours and some of the work will be done on weekends. In
addition, the work will be stopped at 5:00 pm each day to allow traffic to be fully re-
opened on King Street during evening business hours.

Also

Quote:Parking on the Bike Lanes

The public has been permitted to park in the bike lane area on a temporary basis since
last fall. Once the 2018 work is complete, streetscape improvements are complete, the
bike lanes will be for the exclusive use of cyclists. “Region intends to open the bike
lanes for public use and the interim parking by-law exemption will no longer be permitted
on the west side of the King Street between Erb Street and Bridgeport Road. Upon
completion, nNo Parking” signs will be erected placed on the west side of King Street
adjacent to the bike lanes and bike cycling symbols will be painted on the bike
lanesconcrete to indicate the intended use for cyclists.

A parking bylaw will be in effect and vehicles parking on the new bike lanes will be
subject ticketing or towing by the City of Waterloo’s bylaw division. To ensure
compliance with the parking bylaw, officers will be patrolling the area on regular basis
when the bike lanes are open for public use. The City By-law staff is are currently
posting notices on vehicles to and adviseing motorists of the intended use of the new
streetscape and changes in parking on King Street.
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Good news regarding the painted bike symbols. They definitely need something on the lanes themselves, they really do look no different tan the ACTUAL parking.
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(05-03-2018, 02:51 PM)GtwoK Wrote: Good news regarding the painted bike symbols. They definitely need something on the lanes themselves, they really do look no different tan the ACTUAL parking.

Except for the no parking signs, crossrides, width, and colour.

I'm fully cognizant of the fact that most of the drivers there probably do not notice these differences.

Frankly, the response is about right for what is by far the most disappointing project in my memory.  


More misinformation:

"Upon completion, nNo Parking” signs will be erected placed on the west side of King Street"

Those signs have been there for 5 months now.  Bylaw has been instructed not to enforce them.

More windshield perspective:  "the work will be stopped at 5:00 pm each day to allow traffic to be fully re-opened on King Street during evening business hours."

Presumably bike lanes will not be opened, and probably continue to be blocked by cars as well, so it's not "fully" reopened.

Nor will the project even be completed until 2020 at the very earliest, 2021 or 2022 is much more likely.

Given the promise of bike lanes up King St. last year, I don't think it's even slightly exaggerating to say this is a huge disappointment in how this has been handled.  
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(05-03-2018, 02:32 PM)creative Wrote: So if all parking spaces are not filled 100% all of the time then we have too much parking? Can we also say then that if I rarely see bike lanes being used that we have too many bike lanes? I never called you names as you so implied or said anything negative regarding your bike lane suggestion. I park in that location if a spot happens to be available when I am going DTK.

No, but if the minimum parking bylaw requires so much parking to be built that even at peak times there are empty spots available at no charge, then there is way too much parking. Imagine if for some reason (maybe a government edict) grocery stores baked so much bread they couldn’t give it all away, even when the store was busy. By any reasonable definition, there would be too much bread. Same deal for parking. Many suburban locations never run out of parking, even though it is free and even at peak times. This is often because the property owners are required to build such a grossly excessive amount of parking.

In theory, a bike lane could be so underused that it is not justified, but in practice the tiny additional cost of a road with a bike lane compared to a road without a bike lane makes that pretty much a theoretical concern. Also, similar to transit lanes, a bike lane can be helping a lot of people without appearing busy. Say one bicycle per minute uses the bike lane during a 2-hour period in the morning and again in the afternoon. Then it’s helping 60 people an hour or 240 people each day. But it will look pretty much empty; if you stand and watch you will occasionally see somebody bicycle by. Now rip it out and install parking spots, and 30 people come and park all day. 30 drivers have been helped, at the cost of putting 240 bicyclists in danger (well, maybe 120 bicyclists using the lanes twice). But the lane will look much more used when it’s full of cars. Similarly, the LRT tracks running through the city look vacant now, which is obvious because the system is not yet open. But even if the system is insanely popular and we have to increase to a pair of LRVs every 2 minutes in each direction, the tracks will still seem quiet and underused because they will just sit there for two minutes and then one train will come through. But if that were to happen they would be moving more people than any road in the city, including the expressway.
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(05-03-2018, 05:49 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(05-03-2018, 02:32 PM)creative Wrote: So if all parking spaces are not filled 100% all of the time then we have too much parking? Can we also say then that if I rarely see bike lanes being used that we have too many bike lanes? I never called you names as you so implied or said anything negative regarding your bike lane suggestion. I park in that location if a spot happens to be available when I am going DTK.

No, but if the minimum parking bylaw requires so much parking to be built that even at peak times there are empty spots available at no charge, then there is way too much parking. Imagine if for some reason (maybe a government edict) grocery stores baked so much bread they couldn’t give it all away, even when the store was busy. By any reasonable definition, there would be too much bread. Same deal for parking. Many suburban locations never run out of parking, even though it is free and even at peak times. This is often because the property owners are required to build such a grossly excessive amount of parking.

In theory, a bike lane could be so underused that it is not justified, but in practice the tiny additional cost of a road with a bike lane compared to a road without a bike lane makes that pretty much a theoretical concern. Also, similar to transit lanes, a bike lane can be helping a lot of people without appearing busy. Say one bicycle per minute uses the bike lane during a 2-hour period in the morning and again in the afternoon. Then it’s helping 60 people an hour or 240 people each day. But it will look pretty much empty; if you stand and watch you will occasionally see somebody bicycle by. Now rip it out and install parking spots, and 30 people come and park all day. 30 drivers have been helped, at the cost of putting 240 bicyclists in danger (well, maybe 120 bicyclists using the lanes twice). But the lane will look much more used when it’s full of cars. Similarly, the LRT tracks running through the city look vacant now, which is obvious because the system is not yet open. But even if the system is insanely popular and we have to increase to a pair of LRVs every 2 minutes in each direction, the tracks will still seem quiet and underused because they will just sit there for two minutes and then one train will come through. But if that were to happen they would be moving more people than any road in the city, including the expressway.

I love the bread example, because my favourite bread/traffic related analogy is that traffic congestion is equivalent to soviet bread lines.  Same concept, same issue, different supply/demand.
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Or those 30 spots turn over 8 times each during the day allowing 240 individuals to shop at stores convenient to those parking spots who may choose to go elsewhere outside of the core where parking is available. Some people are lazy by nature, others have physical limitations that prevent them from walking long distances but do not allow for them to qualify for disabled parking. People drive cars for convenient point to point transportation. If parking is not close to their destination they will choose to go elsewhere. You can use the mall argument but how often do you see people drive around the mall for 10 minutes looking for a spot closer to the door. I commend those that choose to cycle and take transit over driving a car. I’ve never ever said anything disparaging to those that do.
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(05-03-2018, 07:31 PM)creative Wrote: Or those 30 spots turn over 8 times each during the day allowing 240 individuals to shop at stores convenient to those parking spots who may choose to go elsewhere outside of the core where parking is available. Some people are lazy by nature, others have physical limitations that prevent them from walking long distances but do not allow for them to qualify for disabled parking. People drive cars for convenient point to point transportation. If parking is not close to their destination they will choose to go elsewhere. You can use the mall argument but how often do you see people drive around the mall for 10 minutes looking for a spot closer to the door. I commend those that choose to cycle and take transit over driving a car. I’ve never ever said anything disparaging to those that do.

There is also the parking lot and the parking structure which are both 60m away from Duke and Young.
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