ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[timc]

I remember filling out the City of Waterloo consultation on Waterloo Park. I was just through today and I don't remember seeing that the access across Central Dr was supposed to be cut off, which it is. Makes it hard to get between the two halves of the park.

Where is it cut off?

[Canard]

Yeah, I'm not really getting the issue here. The optics are bad - a big giant fence that stretches as far as you can see... But where do people really need to get to?

If you're on the Animal Park side, you pop out and either go South to the crossing onto FDB, or if you go North and cross at Seagram (temporarily) if you want to go to the sports field on the West side, or continue on the bike/walking trail over there.

The only thing you can't really do (easily) is get to the TPSS if you were looking at a Llama. That's about your worst-case situation.

[plam]

Things are particularly bad, because they closed the existing crossing before opening the new crossing:

Thanks. Yes, the new plan is OK (though still a bit of a detour if you're coming from Central Drive, which is the one-way road next to the tennis cours).

Where is it cut off?

As in Markster's post: there are currently no crossings between Seagram and Silver Creek. So if you're on the west side, you need to get to Seagram before you can get to the east side. There's a body of water and a fence in the way, otherwise.

Yeah, I'm not really getting the issue here. The optics are bad - a big giant fence that stretches as far as you can see... But where do people really need to get to?

If you're on the Animal Park side, you pop out and either go South to the crossing onto FDB, or if you go North and cross at Seagram (temporarily) if you want to go to the sports field on the West side, or continue on the bike/walking trail over there.

The only thing you can't really do (easily) is get to the TPSS if you were looking at a Llama. That's about your worst-case situation.

You can get stuck in the spit of land south of Seagram and west of the fence. The new crossing will help. The Central Drive crossing was better if you're going through the park; it's a small detour with the new crossing at the station and a bigger detour now, especially with construction vehicles on Seagram as well.

[Canard]

South of Seagram/West of Fence = trail and the soccer field. So you just walk a little North to Seagram and you're all set. Once the new crossing is open at the south end of the platform, it'll basically be the same as what was there before. Temporary inconvenience.  Or am I totally missing something?

Markster - sorry!  Stole your drawing...

   

I'm just really not seeing an issue.  If you're at the TPSS (why?) sure it sucks but how did you get there and why are you there?  As you mentioned, there's a river there anyway so if you're at the baseball diamond South of the river (where my one little red "coathook" is), it's not like you can just scale the river and cut over and now it's the tracks that are your problem - there's no bridge there.

[Markster]

South of Seagram/West of Fence = trail and the soccer field. So you just walk a little North to Seagram and you're all set. Once the new crossing is open at the south end of the platform, it'll basically be the same as what was there before. Temporary inconvenience.  Or am I totally missing something?

What you're missing is that when people walk down the west side, from the University, expecting the Central Dr crossing to still exist, it is highly inconvenient to then have to walk all the way back up to Seagram. It's a 450m mistake. More, if they continue south, thinking there might be a new crossing along the new "path" to the TPSS.

People want to have their frustration understood, at the very least.

The detour to go between the halves of the park, is currently not completely terrible. 290m extra compared to before, which is still an annoying walk when you can see through the fence to your destination. When the new crossing opens, it'll be down to 80m of permanent detour, which frankly, is close enough.

[Canard]

What is so interesting about the TPSS that it is a destination for so many pedestrians? I've never even gone over to see it! Baffling. And where on earth are they going once they get to it? It's a bulb/dead end.

Is Central Drive the road between the baseball diamond and the Northernmost animal enclosure (by Bacon and Eggs)?

I've never really considered that it's a "huge detour" to walk 2 minutes up to Seagram and back down, but I'm only ever at Waterloo Park for fun, not as part of a commute, so I guess my mindset is different. If I was tired and on my way home I suppose I'd be a bit annoyed - but then I'd be excited because I get to walk past the station, and check out where things are at with it.

[Markster]

What is so interesting about the TPSS that it is a destination for so many pedestrians?  I've never even gone over to see it!  Baffling.  And where on earth are they going once they get to it?  It's a bulb/dead end.

They're not going there on purpose.

It's an accident.

An accident that means they have walked a very far distance that they didn't want to, because they are just trying to get home.

And they are now very frustrated.

[MidTowner]

What you're missing is that when people walk down the west side, from the University, expecting the Central Dr crossing to still exist, it is highly inconvenient to then have to walk all the way back up to Seagram. It's a 450m mistake. More, if they continue south, thinking there might be a new crossing along the new "path" to the TPSS.

That's a signage issue. It's reasonable for someone walking from Seagram to expect the Central Drive crossing to be open, since it was until not too long ago. It should be prominently signed (at Seagram, where people are taking the decision where to go) that the crossing is no longer open. And it's not at all unreasonable for someone to believe there might be another crossing further south- there will be, one day- so you're right that it could be a significant distance to be doubling back.

By the way, is Seagram closed at the tracks this week? It had closed during the day on Tuesday (though non-car traffic was still getting through, it seemed).

[Canard]

So you're saying people are doing this (heading from North to South)?  A is start, B is point of realization of error, C is finish:

   

Why would they stay on the south side?  The trail is on the North side.  They should cross over at Seagram before even crossing it... I just don't get (even before construction) why anyone would be walking on the South side of the tracks. There's nothing there and if you got to "B" there's no bridge, crossing, anything. It's never been anything but a dead end.

[tomh009]

They're not going there on purpose.

It's an accident.

And accident that means they have walked a very far distance that they didn't want to, because they are just trying to get home.

And they are now very frustrated.

On the upside, most people will only do that once!

[timio]

The Waterloo Park master plan has a path/bridge near the tpss to cross the creek and come out by the skate park.

Also, people would stay on the south side because, in general people are (a) creatures of habit (b) not very observant, and © more likely to continue moving forward to find a way across the tracks than to turn around when they find their planned route blocked.

When construction is complete, this issue will likely go away, but in the interim state, it's feasible that this would occur regularly.

[timc]

Why would they stay on the south side?  The trail is on the North side.  They should cross over at Seagram before even crossing it... I just don't get (even before construction) why anyone would be walking on the South side of the tracks.  There's nothing there and if you got to "B" there's no bridge, crossing, anything.  It's never been anything but a dead end.

It was previously possible to stay on the south side and cross the tracks at Central. That crossing is now blocked. But it's only temporary, so I'm not that concerned (although it is a pain to go down that way and have to turn back). I was also somewhat confused originally, because I thought the comment was about the road being blocked (but it isn't -- it's only a detour), and I wasn't really thinking about pedestrian access at all.

Anyway, the Waterloo Park master plan is a nice thing in theory, but I don't think it's anywhere close to being implemented, is it? And when it is, maybe there will be a bridge over by the skate park.

[Canard]

Ohhhhhhh, so this is the problem?  A is the start, B is the point of realization of the closure, and C is eventually where they're headed? Would a simple "Trail Closed - Please turn Left" sign at the North end of the ion platform (Seagram at the Trail/Tracks) not solve 100% of this problem?

   

Gosh.  I think the Traynor Ave folks might like to have a word on this discussion!

[plam]

Yes. I did the long detour all the way to the creek yesterday. First, Seagram didn't look especially open with machinery operating, though the detour signs say to cross there. Also there's no level crossing so you actually have to lift your bike over the tracks. So it's not just the sign that's missing, but also making Seagram look open. I continued, hoping to find a better crossing.

After finding that Central Drive (by the tennis courts) was closed, I was thinking there would be some other way across, but there was just the river. And there were at least two other people going the same way. "Unless you're planning to swim, there's no way across."

[jamincan]

A more likely scenario would be coming from the trails to the west, going south to cross at Central, continuing south thinking there is a crossing further ahead, and then having to back track all the way to Seagram.