Cycling in Waterloo Region

[danbrotherston]

There's an Earth Day bike ride taking place today, starting at Centre in the Square at 2PM: https://twitter.com/GroundUpWR/status/15...5952723970

Sounds like fun. We'd come except we're stuck in Amsterdam.

Hey, we're just 45 mins down the railway...

How long are you "stuck" the country?

[danbrotherston]

This is correct, and I think it's actually more important than it might at first appear. Having clear continuity in infra is important, even when it's a short segment, this makes it very clear where you are supposed to go to follow the route and to be safe (the route of course being Joseph to Queen to Church).

I don't think many cyclists are using Church, but the intention is to have more cyclists use it. It is intended to be a high quality piece of infrastructure. I think it is a pretty quiet road and is probably acceptable, if it was made part of a clear route, it may get that increase in usage. That being said, I think the main obstacle with Church is the hill. I would have been better to route cyclists around the hill, but that means Charles or King and it seems that wasn't in the cards (Courtland is flat enough as well, but getting around the hill takes you really far south).

I'm not opposed to it, but I'm concerned about the amount value gained for the political capital being spent. At least from my perspective (happy to be wrong) this is the most visible section of the grid to suburban motorists, but also likely to be one of the least used sections. I think the hill is an obstacle, but I think crossing Benton is a bigger one.

I also think Queen St (especially south of King) should have proper cycling infrastructure in the future, and see this setup as a potential obstacle to it unless they manage a 2-way cycle track the entire way down.

---

Regarding my other questions, I think I need to illustrate my confusion.

1) The stop bar for bikes heading to Joseph. I assume this stop bar is used for both directions on Queen, and not just the one ijmorlan was referring to ("stop line south (left, on the plans) of Joseph"). There is a triangle shape immediately left of this stop bar in the construction drawings, but I can't imagine this is a concrete curb. First, it would blocking the existing retirement home driveway, and second the elephant feet on the drawings wouldn't be needed if it was a curb. This means cyclists waiting there are floating directly in the path of Queen St traffic who fail to follow the shifting lane:



2) Are these lines I've drawn the intended paths, and use of the turning box?



I fear some of the expected maneuvers across the grid are confusing to cyclists (who then don't "comply"), and incomprehensible from the motorist perspective who don't see the same paint and signage. Separate signal phases would help a ton, but I imagine that isn't happening.

I mean, value is always a big question. FWIW...I believe projects like the Downtown Grid have much better value in terms of political capital than the garbage bike lanes we've been building for decades. It has a couple of key features.

Connectivity: A network is only valuable if it's connected, it was conceptualized and developed as a complete network, therefore, it should have much greater value as built as a unit (unfortunately now over 3 years).

Focus: The grid is focused downtown where there is the greatest opportunity for increasing cycling. This is something that hasn't been done before where infra is usually built in the periphery where there is no competition for space with cars.

These two things, in my opinion are well worth the cost. The other area that this makes sense is the university district, but obviously that's in the Region's and Waterloo's hands.

That being said, the biggest threats I see to the network is the continual attacks on it by the region and even city. With the Ontario segment killed, and the Duke segment killed, I think it will be a failure. I hope that pols who have invested their reputation in this project recognize that and try to force those segments back into the grid.

As for the usage of the network, it's hard to know till it's built. In the Netherlands, the infra is very intuitive. Even if you've never been here, you more or less can follow the routes (connectivity) and know how to get through the infra. I think the connectivity with the grid is good, the infra is an open question.

In some ways, the culture in the Netherlands plays some part. Drivers are aware of the concept of not being allowed some places. People on bikes are expecting the infra to work for them.
 
Where as where we live, many drivers cannot comprehend not being allowed to drive somewhere, so they drive in the bike lane, and cyclists are used to being at war with the engineer, so they expect to be forced to forge their own path (and get hated on by drivers for it).

That being said, this is something that can be learned, well designed infra will make that learning process very quick. We will have to wait and see if our infra ends up being well designed, UX is a hard problem to solve. In some parts though, Canadian infra is required to be worse than Dutch infra. The best example I can find is the traffic signals. In the Netherlands all traffic signals are on the near side of intersections only. In Ontario they are legally required to be on the far side.

Why the difference? In Ontario they are on the far side so that a driver who makes an error and stops past the stop bar can still see the signal. This is the theory. The practice is that drivers rarely if ever stop behind the stop bar and frequently block crossings. In the Netherlands the concept is different, drivers rarely overrun the stop bar, and I have not seen one block a crossing yet. The reason is nearside signals. If a driver is past the stop bar, they continue through the intersection (which is true in Canada as well). It isn't considered an error (or at least, is a less important error than blocking a crossing).

It also means that signals are much more obvious who they are for, they are directly above or directly beside the user who they apply to.

I'm sure there are probably other design cues like this as well, but this one was the most obvious one to me.

As for the design you question you have, it looks like it could be a concrete curb. Just to the left of the crossing is an outline that looks like it is the type of outline they use for concrete. There is no reason this couldn't be concrete, all it would require is a drop curb. This is in fact the current state of the crossing, where there is a sidewalk and a drop curb. So I suspect there will be.

FWIW...I think the current situation (and probably the future one as well) is terrible. Having a sidewalk that doesn't have the right of way is incredibly confusing and means that the design cues don't align with the intended use. This is another example of our bad design, but ahh...a topic for another episode???

As for continuing on Queen...I'd like to see that as well, but given Queen has been completely rebuilt over the past few years west of Duke, I don't see it happening any time soon. I think it would be less of a big deal if Frederick is well done.

[bravado]

There's an Earth Day bike ride taking place today, starting at Centre in the Square at 2PM: https://twitter.com/GroundUpWR/status/15...5952723970

Around 35 people showed up. This is an event scheduled for every Sunday at 2PM if anyone wants to come.

I hope e-bikes are welcome... I've gotta find the energy and weather combo to ride on up from Cambridge.

[Acitta]

Around 35 people showed up. This is an event scheduled for every Sunday at 2PM if anyone wants to come.

I hope e-bikes are welcome... I've gotta find the energy and weather combo to ride on up from Cambridge.

Yes, there were several e-bikes there, though I chose to ride my recumbent rather than my e-bike.

[jwilliamson]

Sounds like fun. We'd come except we're stuck in Amsterdam.

Hey, we're just 45 mins down the railway...

How long are you "stuck" the country?

I'm back in Canada now. We had been planning to fly back Sunday, but we missed our flight due to huge queues at Schipol. We had 4 days in Amsterdam; we had a great time walking and biking around.

[Rainrider22]

Thanks fornthe update

[dtkvictim]

Queen St curbs are in. Looks like I have the answer to my question about the retirement home driveway: a small speedbump/roll curb type thing.

[cherrypark]

Looking forward to using this! Finally a better way to get to Cedar/Krug towards riding out the east end of town.

[Chris]

How is the interaction with Queen and Joseph looking?

I find the Water/Weber end of the lanes can be confusing. They just end at the locksmith plaza. I started riding on the shared path along the south side of Weber. I've actually noticed an increase in riders doing the same. I wish the city/region would at least mark the lanes and shared bike/pedestrian info on the the Weber path at Victoria and Wellington. Unless you are paying attention to the little green signs you wouldn't know it's a path and not a really wide sidewalk.

[danbrotherston]

How is the interaction with Queen and Joseph looking?

I find the Water/Weber end of the lanes can be confusing. They just end at the locksmith plaza. I started riding on the shared path along the south side of Weber. I've actually noticed an increase in riders doing the same. I wish the city/region would at least mark the lanes and shared bike/pedestrian info on the the Weber path at Victoria and Wellington. Unless you are paying attention to the little green signs you wouldn't know it's a path and not a really wide sidewalk.

I'm not sure what's confusing, they are intended to continue onto the MUT, that seemed clear to me but I haven't seen them in their completed state.

And yeah, the MUT is garbage...the regional engineers who designed it should go back to school...they are ... frankly unqualified to do their job. And the project managers as well...there is an error in the MUT near Wellington where they used trowelled lines for crack relief (whatever those lines are called) instead of saw cut lines. They were supposed to be saw cut, but I assume, the contractor made an error, and yet the region either didn't catch it, or didn't care to make them fix it. But if you cycle on it (or push a wheelchair or stroller), you would never miss it.

For signage, I agree it's poor...although we fought for YEARS to get the tiny little signs they do have.

[dtkvictim]

How is the interaction with Queen and Joseph looking?

In what sense? There are no markings nor traffic signals yet, so there isn't much to say. Everything seems to be looking as the construction diagrams posted above.

At least the curbs on Joseph go out just about all of the way to the intersection here, unlike a number of other intersections (looking at you Water & Charles...)

How is the interaction with Queen and Joseph looking?

I find the Water/Weber end of the lanes can be confusing. They just end at the locksmith plaza. I started riding on the shared path along the south side of Weber. I've actually noticed an increase in riders doing the same. I wish the city/region would at least mark the lanes and shared bike/pedestrian info on the the Weber path at Victoria and Wellington. Unless you are paying attention to the little green signs you wouldn't know it's a path and not a really wide sidewalk.

I'm not sure what's confusing, they are intended to continue onto the MUT, that seemed clear to me but I haven't seen them in their completed state.

And yeah, the MUT is garbage...the regional engineers who designed it should go back to school...they are ... frankly unqualified to do their job. And the project managers as well...there is an error in the MUT near Wellington where they used trowelled lines for crack relief (whatever those lines are called) instead of saw cut lines. They were supposed to be saw cut, but I assume, the contractor made an error, and yet the region either didn't catch it, or didn't care to make them fix it. But if you cycle on it (or push a wheelchair or stroller), you would never miss it.

For signage, I agree it's poor...although we fought for YEARS to get the tiny little signs they do have.

The finishes on the transition from Water to Weber are... weird, but really a non-issue if you know you can bike on the Weber MUT. I fully expect that the Region refused painting a sensible transition, seeing as they don't seem to want people to know this is a MUT.

The most frustrating part about it being borderline unmarked is now we are contributing to the perception of cyclists breaking the rules, riding on the sidewalk, even when following the rules... I used to work nearby, and had coworkers who drove past the shared pathway signs every day. While walking on the Weber St MUT to get lunch, I multiple times had those coworkers complain about cyclists on the sidewalk despite Weber St "having bike lanes". They were referring to these outer white lane markings:



The Region's garbage infrastructure has more negative consequences than visible at first glance.

[Chris]

How is the interaction with Queen and Joseph looking?

In what sense? There are no markings nor traffic signals yet, so there isn't much to say. Everything seems to be looking as the construction diagrams posted above.

At least the curbs on Joseph go out just about all of the way to the intersection here, unlike a number of other intersections (looking at you Water & Charles...)

I guess it's too early to say. I was wondering if it was properly signed and signalled like the intersections along Water.
I get the curb frustration. I'd have to guess they "had" do to that for buses and emergency vehicles? Nothing makes me feel safe like going straight when you are starting in the blind spot of a motorist going left when biking up Water.


I should clarify on the confusion comment. I use the Water - Weber lanes daily and I get how they work. I've seen other people that look to be serious commuters doing the same and riding the MUT after Victoria. The confusing part is the lack of signage and an indication of where to go if you aren't a veteran at cycle commuting. I think casual cyclists or new commuters will find if confusing on where to go when the lane just ends at the locksmiths driveway or the safest way to get to this starting point if coming from the other direction. The curb cuts at Weber and Victoria are currently not designed in a way that would have someone think "Oh, just keep going and ride on the sidewalk under the rail bridge". I don't think the white lines under the overpass are bike lanes? If they are they are, all they do is direct you into two giant mud puddles or ice patches depending on the season.

Making the connection to Spur line clear to all road users, motorists, pedestrians and cyclists would be super nice for everyone. Get some of that fancy green stuff and mark the intersections at Victoria, Wellington, Louisa and Wilhelm so people know bikes and scooters can ride contra flow in this section.

[danbrotherston]

In what sense? There are no markings nor traffic signals yet, so there isn't much to say. Everything seems to be looking as the construction diagrams posted above.

At least the curbs on Joseph go out just about all of the way to the intersection here, unlike a number of other intersections (looking at you Water & Charles...)

I guess it's too early to say. I was wondering if it was properly signed and signalled like the intersections along Water.
I get the curb frustration. I'd have to guess they "had" do to that for buses and emergency vehicles? Nothing makes me feel safe like going straight when you are starting in the blind spot of a motorist going left when biking up Water.


I should clarify on the confusion comment. I use the Water - Weber lanes daily and I get how they work. I've seen other people that look to be serious commuters doing the same and riding the MUT after Victoria. The confusing part is the lack of signage and an indication of where to go if you aren't a veteran at cycle commuting. I think casual cyclists or new commuters will find if confusing on where to go when the lane just ends at the locksmiths driveway or the safest way to get to this starting point if coming from the other direction. The curb cuts at Weber and Victoria are currently not designed in a way that would have someone think "Oh, just keep going and ride on the sidewalk under the rail bridge". I don't think the white lines under the overpass are bike lanes? If they are they are, all they do is direct you into two giant mud puddles or ice patches depending on the season.

Making the connection to Spur line clear to all road users, motorists, pedestrians and cyclists would be super nice for everyone. Get some of that fancy green stuff and mark the intersections at Victoria, Wellington, Louisa and Wilhelm so people know bikes and scooters can ride contra flow in this section.

I don't think they do, but they do anyway. The curb cuts are all way too permissive, but it's part of the expectation that large vehicles should be able to turn without using only half the driveway, which is just stupid. In fact, in general, newly reconstructed driveways are almost always built more permissive than they were before...we are STILL going backwards on this issue.

But I think we've come a little ways anyway.

As for the Weber MUT, I totally agree the signage is terrible, I just...well, I see that as a failing of the MUT not of the Downtown Grid.

And you're right, the white line isn't a "bike lane" it's an edge line. Because the wall is a vertical obstruction, there must be a 0.5 meter affordance between the edge of the lane and the wall. (Same applies to say hydro poles). Of course, why our engineers chose to make TWO affordances (the white line is 0.5 meter from the curb, which is then 0.5 meters from the wall...is anyone's guess. Remember, "overbuild for cars, at the expense of everything else"...the regional engineers mantra.

[dtkvictim]

I don't think the white lines under the overpass are bike lanes? If they are they are, all they do is direct you into two giant mud puddles or ice patches depending on the season.

Right. My point was that my motoring coworkers thought the white lines were bike lanes, and thought that cyclists shouldn't be on the MUT (both incorrect), because it's all so poorly designed.

[KevinL]

Indeed, most motorists' perception of 'narrow area at edge of road demarcated by solid white line' is 'bike lane', even though that's not necessarily true in many cases. It needs to be signposted and lane-marked as such, but motorists generally don't think to check for that.

We do need clearer and more thorough signposting of shared pathways; I don't think this one is marked as such.