General Politics Discussion

[ac3r]

And now we again are in the situation where not enough people want to give the NDP a chance. So we just alternate between Liberal incompetence and Conservative lunacy. It’s not that the NDP would bring about utopia, but they would provide a different perspective and allow for more interesting debates (in particular, a Liberal official opposition to an NDP government would I think produce some very healthy debate and discussion, leading to better legislation than either would produce with a Conservative opposition).

Indeed. Rae was fine, but the recession he had to govern alongside with really hurt him. And since then, the Liberals and Conservatives have spewed out so much anti-NDP propaganda that voters today either think that we'd get another Rae or that NDP voters are just lazy, young people who want to live off of social services. Nobody seems to ask themselves...why does this province suck? Could it be that we keep voting for the same two parties, when we have lots more we can vote for?

I think NDP will have another chance in the near future, but it'll be down to how well they can connect with voters from all sides and not just existing social democrats. That also means they need to connect with voters of all age demographics. NDP supporters tend to be younger, which is fine, but they need to draw in people from other age groups. They need to win over some of the conservative leaning people and they need to win over the liberal leaning people, most of which are white, middle class pseudo-social liberals. And they also need to present ideas that can give voters faith that if they were to govern, they could work on solving things like housing, economic inequality, education, health care, climate change and so on. People are suffering and struggling and they need to know someone has a plan, though those plans also can't hurt the people struggling (for example, people worry NDP would mean higher taxes for everyone and when people can barely make ends meet, the last thing they want is to get taxed).

[nms]

I have no evidence, I am just saying that the out going people might be aware of some issues that need to be dealt with, and they might want to get out.. Simply a suggestion.

Two of the retiring Waterloo Councilors have been on Council for three terms (12 years). The third retiring Councilor is retiring for personal reasons. The Mayor is retiring after two terms (8 years). I'm not aware of all the last times that Mayors changed in Waterloo but the longest serving Mayor, Majorie Carroll served for 11 years before losing to Brian Turnbull who served three terms (9 years) and then retired. The terms don't always line up with the same number of years because of the changing length of term of office in Ontario Municipal politics. Marjorie Carroll was first elected to Council in 1974 (for a total of 14 years, including three reelections by acclamation). Brian Turnbull was first elected to Council in 1972 (for a total run of 25 years)

[ac3r]

Current voting intent for Ontarians: https://twitter.com/338Canada/status/150...9865969667

• PCPO - 37%
  
• ONDP - 29%
  
• OLP - 25%
  
• GPO - 4%
  

Despite how shit everything is, people still want 4 more years of Doug Ford. Crazy.

[tomh009]

It's probably a case of exceeding low expectations ...

[ijmorlan]

It's probably a case of exceeding low expectations ...

Yes, he did much better on Covid than I was fearing. I was expecting near Trumpian levels of insanity, but instead he imposed public health restrictions, called deniers yahoos, and expelled regressive elements from his caucus.

Not that I would have necessarily used the word “yahoo”, but the point is he didn’t try to pander to elements of his party the way almost all Republicans do.

[ac3r]

Well apart from Jason Kenney, conservatives in Canada are mostly sane people and they did have an okay albeit not perfect response to the pandemic. I don't agree with any conservative political philosophy but I do grant the Conservative party that. They're ideologically closer to US Democrats than Republicans. But still, 4 more years of this guy is a depressing prospect. I don't think I'll choose to continue living in Canada if that happens. I'd move back to Germany because it'd just feel pointless to continue living here.

[danbrotherston]

It's probably a case of exceeding low expectations ...

Yes, he did much better on Covid than I was fearing. I was expecting near Trumpian levels of insanity, but instead he imposed public health restrictions, called deniers yahoos, and expelled regressive elements from his caucus.

Not that I would have necessarily used the word “yahoo”, but the point is he didn’t try to pander to elements of his party the way almost all Republicans do.

Well, until now.

I agree generally though, he exceeded the exceedingly low bar.

[ijmorlan]

Well, until now.

I agree generally though, he exceeded the exceedingly low bar.

Do you mean by loosening restrictions? I agree more care is probably appropriate, but I don’t think he’s pandering specifically to extremists in his party: I think the zeitgeist is now in favour of opening, and unless it gets really bad, we’re unlikely to see many more precautions.

[danbrotherston]

Well, until now.

I agree generally though, he exceeded the exceedingly low bar.

Do you mean by loosening restrictions? I agree more care is probably appropriate, but I don’t think he’s pandering specifically to extremists in his party: I think the zeitgeist is now in favour of opening, and unless it gets really bad, we’re unlikely to see many more precautions.

The zeitgeist is defined in large part to what is actually happening. While yes, I think there's lots of blame to go around for this bad situation, a leader absolutely *COULD* have made different choices and inspired people to accept better decisions.

That being said, I don't think it's a coincidence that a violent occupation calling for the end of masking and vaccination mandates that was explicitly supported by conservatives as well as tacitly supported by the media demanded this, and it's exactly what  is happening.

Honestly, I'm as anti-establishment as I've ever been these days...I think almost all of our systems, are broken and even corrupt, to a shocking level.

This one might be more idiocy than corruption.

[JoeKW]

Well apart from Jason Kenney, conservatives in Canada are mostly sane people and they did have an okay albeit not perfect response to the pandemic.

There's been a rotten underbelly in the conservative party for a long time that's trying to take control.  Personally, I think they'll do it (at the federal level).  Doug Ford is his own flavour of populist conservative so it's hard to gauge our provincial party.

[panamaniac]

Poilievre (aka Skippy LePew) is just a die-hard Reformer. Nothing we haven't seen before in substance, although he takes the theatrics to a new high (low?).

[ijmorlan]

Poilievre (aka Skippy LePew) is just a die-hard Reformer.  Nothing we haven't seen before in substance, although he takes the theatrics to a new high (low?).

I’m just worried people will fall for that voice. He really does have a great voice. Too bad he uses it to spread dishonest argumentation.

[JoeKW]

He may be that but he's clearly willing to go further, look at his cryptocurrency talk. Don't underestimate him.

[cherrypark]

Current voting intent for Ontarians: https://twitter.com/338Canada/status/150...9865969667

• PCPO - 37%
  
• ONDP - 29%
  
• OLP - 25%
  
• GPO - 4%
  

Despite how shit everything is, people still want 4 more years of Doug Ford. Crazy.

I am unsure if its wanting 4 more years of Ford or that the alternatives are just so listless and uninspiring. Our provincial politics has a serious shortage of imagination or ambition. That said, its also a depressing reality of FPTP that 37% is what it takes to flirt with a majority again (and that goes both federally and provincially). Would look a lot different if that 58% had an even partially proportionate share of power.

[timio]

If strategic voting is your thing, https://votethemallout.ca/