GO Transit

[tomh009]

And they removed even the limited vehicle registration fees at that.

The silver lining in this otherwise dumb decision is that it benefits low-income people (proportionally) much more: for them, a savings of $100/year is much more meaningful than for the middle class and up.

[bravado]

And they removed even the limited vehicle registration fees at that.

The silver lining in this otherwise dumb decision is that it benefits low-income people (proportionally) much more: for them, a savings of $100/year is much more meaningful than for the middle class and up.

But low income people are obviously less likely to drive? Yet another subsidy from the poor to the less-poor and often rich.

[tomh009]

The silver lining in this otherwise dumb decision is that it benefits low-income people (proportionally) much more: for them, a savings of $100/year is much more meaningful than for the middle class and up.

But low income people are obviously less likely to drive? Yet another subsidy from the poor to the less-poor and often rich.

Less likely, yes. But many do drive, given the logistics of getting from their housing to their employment. And, for those people, it is a help. (I'd prefer to support them in other ways, but at least this dumb decision has some upside.

[bravado]

https://www.engagewr.ca/cambridge-to-uni...enger-rail

Attended the first in-person meeting about this tonight at Cambridge City Hall. I hope the slides are uploaded to the site later in better quality.

Key points:
1. 6 year timeline for upgrading the existing rail and building the stations
2 Using electric units
3. 4 separate options for timing/level of service
4. Surprisingly revenue-positive, but this is always dubious to me
5. It sounds like the GO station will be adjacent to or even integrated with the possible ION station.
6. The Milton line sounds like an immense job to upgrade the tracks and negotiate with CP rail, it was really flatly rejected a bunch of times in Q&A time
7. Surprising turnout of all 3 Cambridge regional councillors and about half of city council
8. This sounds like a rather small and easily achieved project that gets to utilize all the money spent on the interminable Kitchener upgrades


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[SF22]

Six years is somehow a better timeline than I expected? If it gets promised and started, I wonder if that will help kickstart some big projects in the Hespeler corridor, like the SmartCentres switching over to residential instead of commercial. Definitely like the consideration of joining the LRT and GO platforms together; paired with bus stops on Hespeler, there would be a proper little transit hub there. Thanks for the photos and details, @bravado!

[bravado]

I’m still big on the Milton line, but the presentation was pretty ok and sounded like an almost compelling little spur line. There could even be a fare-sharing future where you can jump between ION and GO easily. Since there’s really no regional risk here, I hope this is an easy project to get endorsement from the city and county councils involved. Depending on future growth, there could even be a Hespeler stop along the route too.

[ac3r]

Why does anyone think we need this? Cambridge is a regressive, anti-development, anti-transit, pro-car city with some of the most stringent NIMBY council and voters. Why does it need a train when they don't want anything? I'd rather see Metrolinx put this money and resources into improving existing services. We don't even have reliable all day train service to Kitchener or the multimodal train station that has been planned for, what, a decade now? Yet they want to build entirely new rail and trainstations...to Cambridge? That makes as much sense as opening a GO train to Wellesley.

[danbrotherston]

I mean, I wouldn't put any stock in the economic numbers...they're more made up than the timelines and cost estimates for building the thing.

To me, this sounds like a pipe dream...or maybe more accurately, a pitch to government VCs...they're looking to gain investment with a flash (but easy) project.

The reality is, the Milton line is a better option, but it involves actually work. This option just involves spending money, which is easy. You see it in the "we'll make the trains battery powered" BS...which tries to make the project look fancy, but without doing hard things like electrifying the line or cheap things like just using standard diesel trains.

But the thing which shows me most strongly that this is a pitch for money and not a real idea is that this is a 35 minute drive. The city owns buses. If they were serious about doing this, rather than seeking funding for a flashy project, they'd be running buses to/from Guelph Central tomorrow to demonstrate and build demand. It's how the ION started with the iXpress bus and how GO built demonstrated demand for expanded Kitchener line service. But this is expensive and difficult.

The fact is the city needs a single seat rail link to Toronto. Service to Guelph is a good thing too, but if it's not a single seat to Toronto, it's losing most of it's potential, Guelph and Cambridge are too close and too car friendly for transit to be a huge success at the moment.

Honestly, this kind of thing makes me very cynical...because I see how it's being decided and it isn't being decided on "what is good transit" it's being decided on "what can we sell, by avoiding all political risk, and maximizing shininess."

[SF22]

Why does anyone think we need this? Cambridge is a regressive, anti-development, anti-transit, pro-car city with some of the most stringent NIMBY council and voters. Why does it need a train when they don't want anything? I'd rather see Metrolinx put this money and resources into improving existing services. We don't even have reliable all day train service to Kitchener or the multimodal train station that has been planned for, what, a decade now? Yet they want to build entirely new rail and trainstations...to Cambridge? That makes as much sense as opening a GO train to Wellesley.

omg let's open a GO train to Wellesley, I'd love to visit my family without the half hour drive.

Alternatively, if Cambridge never gets any resources, they will continue to be stuck in their car-centric mindset forever. Right now, everyone wants things to stay in the status quo because it's too hard to get anywhere without a car, particularly for all the folks who work in Toronto but drove down the 401 until they could afford a home. Of course those people don't want the LRT to narrow Hespeler Rd when they need to take Hespeler to reach the 401 every day. However, the combination of LRT and GO, with stronger connectivity at both the regional and intercity levels, might just be enough to get enough people in Cambridge to buy into the mindset shift we've already seen in Kitchener.

[ac3r]

I'd be down for trains to Wellesley and similar...assuming they didn't cost anything lol.

I mean a big reason why Cambridg is the way it is, is because there has not yet been a catalyst to change it. But a GO train isn't going to be nor should be the catalyst that results in Cambridge changing its urban fabric. The region needs to focus on getting the LRT line to Cambridge started as soon as possible so that it can actually feel connected to the rest of the region. Metrolinx then needs to speedrun the completion of our new train station and all day service so we have just 1 reliable link to cities eastbound of us. Perhaps at that point, when the LRT is operational development in Cambridge starts to boom, the population grows and densifies, the economy becomes more dynamic and so on, then it would make sense to have a spur that went to Cambridge. It just seems like a huge misallocation of resources to consider doing this now (not that it would ever happen for decades to come, since we know how slow Metrolinx works).

[KevinL]

The purpose of this is to say 'we got you a GO train to Cambridge' with the least possible effort (financially, politically, or otherwise). It's an easy answer to a hot potato that will get them re-elected.

[bravado]

1: This project uses the special “secondary plan” for Hespeler Road and the existing MTSA framework to get a station built in a location that is supposed to be converted to better uses. Classic chicken and egg problem, but if GO doesn’t use the fergus rail spur, CN will just let it be ripped up. That’s what makes this relatively low cost.

2: Part of why Cambridge is the way it is - is because so many people just live here and drive to the GTA. They don’t vote, they don’t get involved, and yet they still need infrastructure. Cambridge is the biggest city in Ontario without a single link and I’m happy someone is spending some money to resolve it, instead of just being really shitty and rude like some of our illustrious KW neighbours.

3: The Milton line is the real ideal option and yet we still live in a place where CP Rail has more power than the government, so I understand the sad lack of ambition here.

The only hope is that the Hespeler Rd secondary plan actually does lead to new growth and the replacement of a car sewer with a place for humans - but it needs buy in from the city and region and province to do it over decades…

[Bytor]

The Milton line options is only better if you're not going the full length of that line and want to get to Milton or Mississauga. If people are going to Toronto, then this route is better because it's a few minutes quicker with the possibility of a lot quicker as more work on the Kitchener line gets done, and it also gets you to Guelph, where probably a lot more Cambridgites actually work than Toronto or Mississauga (based on common commuting patterns).

I'd be willing to bet that $500M on this spur line gets you a far bigger ROI from Guelph-Cambridge economic benefits than spending billions to extend the Milton line to Galt.

Of course, I think we should have both Guelph and Milton, and the Lakeshore West Hamilton→Brantford extension that takes back the Paris rail trail and loops up to Cambridge.

[nms]

If they can pull this off, it could be a good case study for how to build other secondary rail connections to the main, 12-car train, GO train line. How many other communities along the various GO routes have underused or abandoned rail-spurs that could be used as feeders into the network? What if something similar was used to shuttle people from New Hamburg, Baden, (and heck even Shakespeare) to the Kitchener terminus? And since Milton was mentioned, something could be run between Milton and Georgetown too.

On the other hand, if they want to start smaller, how about a north-south GO bus route that connects Brantford, Cambridge and Guelph? GO could also add a triangular route that did a Cambridge-Hamilton-Brantford loop.

I love drawing lines on maps.

[SF22]

If they can pull this off, it could be a good case study for how to build other secondary rail connections to the main, 12-car train, GO train line. How many other communities along the various GO routes have underused or abandoned rail-spurs that could be used as feeders into the network?  What if something similar was used to shuttle people from New Hamburg, Baden, (and heck even Shakespeare) to the Kitchener terminus? And since Milton was mentioned, something could be run between Milton and Georgetown too.

On the other hand, if they want to start smaller, how about a north-south GO bus route that connects Brantford, Cambridge and Guelph? GO could also add a triangular route that did a Cambridge-Hamilton-Brantford loop.

I love drawing lines on maps.

I know it would cost an absolute fortune, but imagine if we could buy up the land to build an entirely NEW RAIL LINE from Cambridge to Hamilton. You could use part of the old Paris Rail Trail to get up into Galt downtown, and maybe tunnel the train for the last kilometre in to hook up underneath of the LRT terminus, much like the Hamilton Centre station tunnels to the northwest. And then loop over and stretch it alongside old highway 8 until you can hook into an existing CN rail line to swing you into Hamilton downtown. It would probably be 45km from end-to-end, most of it new rail except for anything reused in Hamilton.

I hope someone in government dares to dream big, one of these days.