Welcome Guest!
In order to take advantage of all the great features that Waterloo Region Connected has to offer, including participating in the lively discussions below, you're going to have to register. The good news is that it'll take less than a minute and you can get started enjoying Waterloo Region's best online community right away.
or Create an Account




Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
General Politics Discussion
Mark McCardle (formerly of eSentire, a cyber security company in Cambridge) posted a twitter thread with his concerns about Cambridge's online voting system last night.

https://twitter.com/mjmcardle/status/104...2333725697
Reply


I would like to see us moving closer to direct democracy and Switzerland has e-Voting, why can't we.

https://www.evoting.ch/en

I think we could also increase voter turnout if we extend the times we can vote. Electronic submissions (the machines we use now) help as well. It would be great if they showed up in more locations though to encourage people to vote. Where the machines turn up remains another nudge for certain types of people. But that makes running an election more expensive.

Online voting could change all that, but as Mark McCardle says it's basically impossible to make it secure.

In Reseach it's all about eliminating noise by increasing the sample and low voter turnouts mean more chance of disruption. It's such a complex problem, but something leads me to believe that somehow we can find a way to maximize sample (eliminate who get's to vote?) so that vulnerabilities in online voting security are less likely.
Reply
(10-11-2018, 10:29 AM)welltoldtales Wrote: I would like to see us moving closer to direct democracy and Switzerland has e-Voting, why can't we.

https://www.evoting.ch/en

I think we could also increase voter turnout if we extend the times we can vote. Electronic submissions (the machines we use now) help as well. It would be great if they showed up in more locations though to encourage people to vote. Where the machines turn up remains another nudge for certain types of people. But that makes running an election more expensive.

Online voting could change all that, but as Mark McCardle says it's basically impossible to make it secure.

In Reseach it's all about eliminating noise by increasing the sample and low voter turnouts mean more chance of disruption. It's such a complex problem, but something leads me to believe that somehow we can find a way to maximize sample (eliminate who get's to vote?) so that vulnerabilities in online voting security are less likely.

Direct democracy isn't necessarily better.  It requires an informed and engaged electorate, something we clearly don't have here.

The point is, the people know what kinds of things they want, clean air, safe city, etc. It should be up to politicians to figure out what policies to implement to achieve those goals.  Putting it up to citizens is very likely to lead to sub optimal results.  This board is an exceptionally informed and well educated group of people, but even we don't have time to study and understand every single issue.  What is the best math curriculum?  What is the best policing policy to achieve safety?

People are more subject to mob effects than politicians.  It has good and bad of course, but it is not clear that direct democracy is better.

I think there is more value in tackling the causes of electorate apathy than making voting easier or more direct.

As for online security, increasing the sample size is irrelevant when it comes to online.  One of the risks with online voting is that, contrary to in person voter fraud, you don't need a large group of people to cheat.  If I find a back door to the online voting system I can possibly generate an unlimited number of false votes.  If I found a back door to the in person voting system, I'd be physically limited in the number of false ballots I could actually generate.
Reply
(10-11-2018, 09:07 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Tritag's election survey is out: http://tritag.ca/election2018/

Some of the responses are fantastic, some are absolutely astounding though.
Reply
(10-11-2018, 10:29 AM)welltoldtales Wrote: I would like to see us moving closer to direct democracy and Switzerland has e-Voting, why can't we.

https://www.evoting.ch/en

I think we could also increase voter turnout if we extend the times we can vote. Electronic submissions (the machines we use now) help as well. It would be great if they showed up in more locations though to encourage people to vote. Where the machines turn up remains another nudge for certain types of people. But that makes running an election more expensive.

Online voting could change all that, but as Mark McCardle says it's basically impossible to make it secure.

In Reseach it's all about eliminating noise by increasing the sample and low voter turnouts mean more chance of disruption. It's such a complex problem, but something leads me to believe that somehow we can find a way to maximize sample (eliminate who get's to vote?) so that vulnerabilities in online voting security are less likely.

You lost me at direct democracy.

In all reality, I didn't know about their system.  Its interesting.

But are voting hours that much of an issue, aren't they 8 to 8 or something similar?
Reply
(10-11-2018, 08:28 AM)Spokes Wrote:
(10-11-2018, 06:08 AM)jamincan Wrote: I think online voting could potentially be a good way to increase voter engagement at a municipal level. While there are undoubtedly security issues that make it pretty much completely inappropriate for elections at the provincial or federal level, I'm not entirely sure those concerns offset the potential for greater participation at a local level.

I think we could see a small increase in engagement, but maybe I'm being naive, but is access to voting locations really what's stopping people from voting?  I always thought it was more apathy.

Our union has recently switched to online (electronic) voting for our last bargaining round.  They have found that even though there is a convenience benefit, turn out was slightly lower, not more. 

Coke
Reply
(10-11-2018, 10:29 AM)welltoldtales Wrote: I would like to see us moving closer to direct democracy and Switzerland has e-Voting, why can't we.

https://www.evoting.ch/en

I think we could also increase voter turnout if we extend the times we can vote. Electronic submissions (the machines we use now) help as well. It would be great if they showed up in more locations though to encourage people to vote. Where the machines turn up remains another nudge for certain types of people. But that makes running an election more expensive.

Online voting could change all that, but as Mark McCardle says it's basically impossible to make it secure.

Estonia has been doing Internet voting for national and municipal elections since 2005. Currently about 35% of ballots are submitted by Internet. There have been no demonstrated hacks to date.

But I agree with Dan, generally representative democracy works better, unless you have a super-informed electorate.
Reply
I'll be curious to see if voter participation by marginalized groups goes up with the locations at soup kitchens, even for advanced voting.
Reply
(10-12-2018, 04:20 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: I'll be curious to see if voter participation by marginalized groups goes up with the locations at soup kitchens, even for advanced voting.

According to CBC, 25 people voted at Ray of Hope and 30 at St John's Kitchen in the four hours the polling stations were open yesterday.
Reply
(10-11-2018, 09:07 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Tritag's election survey is out: http://tritag.ca/election2018/

I think that there was a missed opportunity in not contacting school board trustee candidates. School boards do a lot to shape young people's early experience of getting around such as:
- school location dictates whether students can walk/cycle or must be driven (car or bus) to school
- school boundaries and program location also dictate how students move around
- interactions with GRT influence whether students ride a GRT bus as a gateway to public transit or a school bus as a temporary flirtation with massed transit
- schools encourage active transportation such as cycling or walking school buses

For example, where I grew up, my initial walk to public school was 10 minutes. The boundaries were changed and new children in the neighbourhood required a 30 minute walk to a different school.

Transit options in the neighbourhood slowly downgraded from a regular KT city bus (three morning and evening runs), then a KT/GRT school special, and now is only served by a school bus.  In another case, in order to save money, GRT combined two school special routes so the first students arrived at the high school before 7:30 (for an 8:15 start) and the second batch arrived at the next high school at 8:10 (for an 8:15 start).  Needless to say, ridership went from a packed bus to a near empty bus for the first school.
Reply
I just read through it; what a fantastic resource. I was on the fence about who to vote for, and it's already helped me decide for regional chair (Redman) and my local councillor (Stretch - Ward 1 Kitchener). If you can't even go to the effort to complete an election survey from an organization as important as TriTAG, you don't deserve my vote.
Reply
(10-13-2018, 07:24 AM)jamincan Wrote: I just read through it; what a fantastic resource. I was on the fence about who to vote for, and it's already helped me decide for regional chair (Redman) and my local councillor (Stretch - Ward 1 Kitchener). If you can't even go to the effort to complete an election survey from an organization as important as TriTAG, you don't deserve my vote.

Care to say what you felt was compelling in her answers?

I liked her statements on Transit but her statements on Development, Active Transportation, and especially Safe Streets I found to be not particularly compelling.  They varied between political hedging and completely empty (her safe streets statement amounted to "we already have a perfectly good process for fixing the broken stuff we build").

The survey didn't change my mind too much.  My preferred candidate (Rob) didn't say anything too shocking or disappointing.  My main reason for supporting him is still is very vocal support for active transport, plus his exceptional efforts to engage voters all over the region of all stripes (yesterday he apparently rode GRT for the day to meet and engage transit riders). I didn't like his sidewalk clearing answer on the survey, or his answer on LRT Phase 2 but at the end of the day I'm not going to like every answer and I get the idea he would listen to pursuasive arguments .
Reply
(10-13-2018, 07:24 AM)jamincan Wrote: I just read through it; what a fantastic resource. I was on the fence about who to vote for, and it's already helped me decide for regional chair (Redman) and my local councillor (Stretch - Ward 1 Kitchener). If you can't even go to the effort to complete an election survey from an organization as important as TriTAG, you don't deserve my vote.

I was shocked at the number of non responders.

I found it really helpful although I'm still on the fence about my 4th Regional Councillor in Kitchener.
Reply
(10-13-2018, 08:57 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(10-13-2018, 07:24 AM)jamincan Wrote: I just read through it; what a fantastic resource. I was on the fence about who to vote for, and it's already helped me decide for regional chair (Redman) and my local councillor (Stretch - Ward 1 Kitchener). If you can't even go to the effort to complete an election survey from an organization as important as TriTAG, you don't deserve my vote.

Care to say what you felt was compelling in her answers?

I liked her statements on Transit but her statements on Development, Active Transportation, and especially Safe Streets I found to be not particularly compelling.  They varied between political hedging and completely empty (her safe streets statement amounted to "we already have a perfectly good process for fixing the broken stuff we build").

The survey didn't change my mind too much.  My preferred candidate (Rob) didn't say anything too shocking or disappointing.  My main reason for supporting him is still is very vocal support for active transport, plus his exceptional efforts to engage voters all over the region of all stripes (yesterday he apparently rode GRT for the day to meet and engage transit riders). I didn't like his sidewalk clearing answer on the survey, or his answer on LRT Phase 2 but at the end of the day I'm not going to like every answer and I get the idea he would listen to pursuasive arguments .

I agree. Karen Redman would probably be fine but Rob Deutschmann has made more noise about segregated bike lanes, so he gets my vote.
Reply
Personal preference aside, do you think he'll win?

Maybe we need a prediction thread. With odds haha
Reply
« Next Oldest | Next Newest »



Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

About Waterloo Region Connected

Launched in August 2014, Waterloo Region Connected is an online community that brings together all the things that make Waterloo Region great. Waterloo Region Connected provides user-driven content fueled by a lively discussion forum covering topics like urban development, transportation projects, heritage issues, businesses and other issues of interest to those in Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge and the four Townships - North Dumfries, Wellesley, Wilmot, and Woolwich.

              User Links