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Revisiting the Market District
#31
People are lazy. My goodness.

The number of complaints I've heard about parking in DTK is insane. I've literally never had an issue parking downtown. I've had to walk a couple blocks, but who cares. In fact, I love the walk around downtown.
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#32
Also, I love that they're going to try a Night market. Great great idea!
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#33
(11-08-2018, 11:27 AM)Spokes Wrote: Also, I love that they're going to try a Night market.  Great great idea!

Yes. I like the night market idea too.  If the area restaurants are smart, they will try and capture the people.  Make it a night out walking around the market area and shops...

I too have never had an issue with parking. Of course I dont need to park in front of the door !!!
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#34
(11-08-2018, 11:27 AM)Spokes Wrote: People are lazy.  My goodness.

The number of complaints I've heard about parking in DTK is insane.  I've literally never had an issue parking downtown.  I've had to walk a couple blocks, but who cares.  In fact, I love the walk around downtown.

We are confronted with the reality that many people, perhaps a majority, have not walked a couple of blocks to any destination in years.  It is what it is.
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#35
(11-08-2018, 10:53 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Looks like they are trying to start up a Wed night Farmers Market for the summer.  I would go for sure.

www.therecord.com/news-story/9022869-kitchener-to-test-wednesday-evening-market-next-summer/

However, another ridiculous statement in a survey completed by the market.

Respondents also raised the perennial complaint about a lack of parking. "Now that we aren't within walking distance, we don't go because there is nowhere to park and the traffic is horrendous," wrote one.  

What they are saying is.  I find it hard to park right in the market and not have to walk.....

Indeed!  Or "I have to pay to park easily a short distance away".

To be fair, I think there is a lack of knowledge around parking.

My solution to the Market problems would be:

1. Charge top dollar for parking in the garage under the market, it's absurd this is free.
2. Put up big HUGE temporary signs showing directions to the huge empty garage literally a block away from the market (and maybe even the Benton garage if things go really well).
3. Close Market Ln on market days (maybe even put the fresh produce or flea market in the laneway).

And a bonus option we should just do anyway: 4. Charge market rates for street parking.

Look at that, parking problems magically solved for literally negative money. Complaining will ensure I am certain, but the reality is this is a better solution than wasting money on anything else.
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#36
(11-08-2018, 12:24 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: My solution to the Market problems would be:
1.  Charge top dollar for parking in the garage under the market, it's absurd this is free.
2.  Put up big HUGE temporary signs showing directions to the huge empty garage literally a block away from the market (and maybe even the Benton garage if things go really well).
3.  Close Market Ln on market days (maybe even put the fresh produce or flea market in the laneway).

This would work well. It would drive people to free parking not far away. And it would allow people who really, really want to park in the same building to do so -- albeit at a cost.

However, I would add
1B. Keep the handicapped parking spaces free of charge.
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#37
(11-08-2018, 01:15 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 12:24 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: My solution to the Market problems would be:
1.  Charge top dollar for parking in the garage under the market, it's absurd this is free.
2.  Put up big HUGE temporary signs showing directions to the huge empty garage literally a block away from the market (and maybe even the Benton garage if things go really well).
3.  Close Market Ln on market days (maybe even put the fresh produce or flea market in the laneway).

This would work well. It would drive people to free parking not far away. And it would allow people who really, really want to park in the same building to do so -- albeit at a cost.

However, I would add
1B. Keep the handicapped parking spaces free of charge.

Why should handicapped parking be of a different cost than regular parking, people with disabled placards aren't necessarily poor.  The problem with making it free is that it provides an incentive to cheat the system.  Making it free could result in it being unavailable for those who do need it.

There are many differently abled folks who get to the market by other means as well, I think the market has a lot of improvements to make in terms of accessibility...I'm not sure free parking is the best one.

To be sure, this is a difficult question, one which Donald Shoup discusses in his books.
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#38
(11-08-2018, 12:24 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 10:53 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Looks like they are trying to start up a Wed night Farmers Market for the summer.  I would go for sure.

www.therecord.com/news-story/9022869-kitchener-to-test-wednesday-evening-market-next-summer/

However, another ridiculous statement in a survey completed by the market.

Respondents also raised the perennial complaint about a lack of parking. "Now that we aren't within walking distance, we don't go because there is nowhere to park and the traffic is horrendous," wrote one.  

What they are saying is.  I find it hard to park right in the market and not have to walk.....

Indeed!  Or "I have to pay to park easily a short distance away".

To be fair, I think there is a lack of knowledge around parking.

My solution to the Market problems would be:

1.  Charge top dollar for parking in the garage under the market, it's absurd this is free.
2.  Put up big HUGE temporary signs showing directions to the huge empty garage literally a block away from the market (and maybe even the Benton garage if things go really well).
3.  Close Market Ln on market days (maybe even put the fresh produce or flea market in the laneway).

And a bonus option we should just do anyway: 4.  Charge market rates for street parking.

Look at that, parking problems magically solved for literally negative money.  Complaining will ensure I am certain, but the reality is this is a better solution than wasting money on anything else.

Do you know that if you go to the market on Saturday and park at Benton Garage, they will give you a parking pass that only costs $2....  How great is that.
Reply
#39
(11-08-2018, 12:12 PM)panamaniac Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 11:27 AM)Spokes Wrote: People are lazy.  My goodness.

The number of complaints I've heard about parking in DTK is insane.  I've literally never had an issue parking downtown.  I've had to walk a couple blocks, but who cares.  In fact, I love the walk around downtown.

We are confronted with the reality that many people, perhaps a majority, have not walked a couple of blocks to any destination in years.  It is what it is.

Ironically, many of them probably regularly walk almost as far at places like WalMart, except the walk is through a parking lot rather than along a nice sidewalk.
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#40
(11-08-2018, 01:20 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Why should handicapped parking be of a different cost than regular parking, people with disabled placards aren't necessarily poor.  The problem with making it free is that it provides an incentive to cheat the system.  Making it free could result in it being unavailable for those who do need it.

There are many differently abled folks who get to the market by other means as well, I think the market has a lot of improvements to make in terms of accessibility...I'm not sure free parking is the best one.

To be sure, this is a difficult question, one which Donald Shoup discusses in his books.

Many disabled people cannot easily travel even a few blocks by car, so providing free parking for them 2-3 blocks away may not enable them to go the market.

Other people may have better information on this issue, though, this was just my thought.
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#41
(11-08-2018, 01:54 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 01:20 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Why should handicapped parking be of a different cost than regular parking, people with disabled placards aren't necessarily poor.  The problem with making it free is that it provides an incentive to cheat the system.  Making it free could result in it being unavailable for those who do need it.

There are many differently abled folks who get to the market by other means as well, I think the market has a lot of improvements to make in terms of accessibility...I'm not sure free parking is the best one.

To be sure, this is a difficult question, one which Donald Shoup discusses in his books.

Many disabled people cannot easily travel even a few blocks by car, so providing free parking for them 2-3 blocks away may not enable them to go the market.

Other people may have better information on this issue, though, this was just my thought.

There is disabled parking AT the market, I'm not saying it shouldn't be there, I'm just saying it shouldn't necessarily be free.

There are also lots of disabled people who cannot travel by car at all.  I'm all for facilitating them as much as possible but that doesn't necessarily make it the case that parking should be free--that in fact, could lead to less access.
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#42
(11-08-2018, 12:24 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 10:53 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Looks like they are trying to start up a Wed night Farmers Market for the summer.  I would go for sure.

www.therecord.com/news-story/9022869-kitchener-to-test-wednesday-evening-market-next-summer/

However, another ridiculous statement in a survey completed by the market.

Respondents also raised the perennial complaint about a lack of parking. "Now that we aren't within walking distance, we don't go because there is nowhere to park and the traffic is horrendous," wrote one.  

What they are saying is.  I find it hard to park right in the market and not have to walk.....

Indeed!  Or "I have to pay to park easily a short distance away".

To be fair, I think there is a lack of knowledge around parking.

My solution to the Market problems would be:

1.  Charge top dollar for parking in the garage under the market, it's absurd this is free.
2.  Put up big HUGE temporary signs showing directions to the huge empty garage literally a block away from the market (and maybe even the Benton garage if things go really well).
3.  Close Market Ln on market days (maybe even put the fresh produce or flea market in the laneway).

And a bonus option we should just do anyway: 4.  Charge market rates for street parking.

Look at that, parking problems magically solved for literally negative money.  Complaining will ensure I am certain, but the reality is this is a better solution than wasting money on anything else.

Those are great ideas, and easy to implement.

I can't imagine there would be much drop off from a business perspective either.  I don't think many people would stay away just because of this.  Maybe some, but I don't know if it would be noticeable.

Although that would be the argument against doing it that the vendors will make.
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#43
(11-08-2018, 01:23 PM)Rainrider22 Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 12:24 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Indeed!  Or "I have to pay to park easily a short distance away".

To be fair, I think there is a lack of knowledge around parking.

My solution to the Market problems would be:

1.  Charge top dollar for parking in the garage under the market, it's absurd this is free.
2.  Put up big HUGE temporary signs showing directions to the huge empty garage literally a block away from the market (and maybe even the Benton garage if things go really well).
3.  Close Market Ln on market days (maybe even put the fresh produce or flea market in the laneway).

And a bonus option we should just do anyway: 4.  Charge market rates for street parking.

Look at that, parking problems magically solved for literally negative money.  Complaining will ensure I am certain, but the reality is this is a better solution than wasting money on anything else.

Do you know that if you go to the market on Saturday and park at Benton Garage, they will give you a parking pass that only costs $2....  How great is that.

I had no idea they did that.  How does it work?  I've actually never had to park in the Benton Street garage (that's how easily I've always found parking) so is it a voucher that gets scanned?
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#44
(11-08-2018, 02:19 PM)Spokes Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 01:23 PM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Do you know that if you go to the market on Saturday and park at Benton Garage, they will give you a parking pass that only costs $2....  How great is that.

I had no idea they did that.  How does it work?  I've actually never had to park in the Benton Street garage (that's how easily I've always found parking) so is it a voucher that gets scanned?

Go to the market office n Saturday on the upper level. Ask for a parking slip.  You go to Benton and put the slip into the parking meter at the exit followed by your parking slip. Pay $2.00 and the gate opens.  It is that easy and that nice !!
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#45
(11-08-2018, 01:28 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(11-08-2018, 12:12 PM)panamaniac Wrote: We are confronted with the reality that many people, perhaps a majority, have not walked a couple of blocks to any destination in years.  It is what it is.

Ironically, many of them probably regularly walk almost as far at places like WalMart, except the walk is through a parking lot rather than along a nice sidewalk.

Once you're inside the mall, or whatever, the steps don't count - it's the steps to get to the destination that govern everything, for many people.
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