Grocery Stores

[jamincan]

It would be interesting to try to consider what changes could be made to make plazas like that more comfortable and attractive to pedestrians and cyclists. It's one thing to build something new from scratch, but how can we adjust existing spaces to be more friendly?

Looking at Stanley Park Zehrs, which is near me:
- tighten the turn radius for the car entrance and exits in order to narrow the space pedestrians have to cross.
- close the extra entrance off River Rd.
- put a walkway from Ottawa along the back fence so that pedestrians aren't repeatedly crossing car traffic with restricted visibility
- have walkways with curbs separating them from parking from the mall entrances to the street/rear sidewalk so that the main walking routes are better protected from drivers (the only one now is painted and is not a primary route for pedestrians)

There are a whole lot more drastic things that could be done, but the turn radius one, speaking from personal experience, would probably be the best improvement that could be done relatively cheaply.

[ijmorlan]

It would be interesting to try to consider what changes could be made to make plazas like that more comfortable and attractive to pedestrians and cyclists. It's one thing to build something new from scratch, but how can we adjust existing spaces to be more friendly?

Build them as one piece with a continuous portico linking every doorway, and extending to the ends of the property.

Sorry to keep beating this drum, but I can’t be the only person who prefers walking to and between stores in a space that is not subject to rain and snow.

[panamaniac]

(Belmont Village did used to have the Vincenzo's, but it was pretty cramped).

Belmont Village used to have a Zehrs, iirc.

[tomh009]

Build them as one piece with a continuous portico linking every doorway, and extending to the ends of the property.

Sorry to keep beating this drum, but I can’t be the only person who prefers walking to and between stores in a space that is not subject to rain and snow.

It wouldn't be the same without you!

[dtkvictim]

Individuals who are counting every penny they spend on groceries aren't going to be shopping there. It's gentrification. They've suffered through not having a full service supermarket for years, this isn't going to change that.

If this is just going to be a debate on gentrification, then I'm not interested in having it (and it's not the topic of this thread anyways). But if you're can evaluate this store outside of that context, I don't see why it can't be a benefit even to those less well off. If you assume that the poor have infinite time you might be right, but in my experience free time is one of the first things you have to cut when you are having financial trouble. This is especially true for those who need to work multiple jobs. So for those who have to make a trade-off between time and money, they might still save money at a more expensive grocery store if the time savings of it lets them forgo having a car, using a taxi, or grocery delivery that they otherwise need to free up time.

Not to mention, this is a currently empty storefront. You'll have a really hard time convincing me this could be any worse than neutral to the existing DTK population.

I don't know if I'd say that any suburb I've lived in has had a walkable grocery store, I don't think I've ever been to a walkable suburban grocery store on this continent. Just to be clear, I don't consider a grocery store that I can technically walk to, but which is surrounded by miles of parking and dangerous roads, "walkable", but I'm sure that's a question of definition, it's certainly not pleasant to walk to.

Well, given the strict definition you are running with, I can't say any of the suburban grocery stores I had in mind meet your bar for "walkable", but I don't care about your definition. What I care about is having a grocery store I can walk to. Having to cross an 8 lane intersection and swim through the sea of parking was still preferable to the options I currently have.

[danbrotherston]

It would be interesting to try to consider what changes could be made to make plazas like that more comfortable and attractive to pedestrians and cyclists. It's one thing to build something new from scratch, but how can we adjust existing spaces to be more friendly?

Looking at Stanley Park Zehrs, which is near me:
- tighten the turn radius for the car entrance and exits in order to narrow the space pedestrians have to cross.
- close the extra entrance off River Rd.
- put a walkway from Ottawa along the back fence so that pedestrians aren't repeatedly crossing car traffic with restricted visibility
- have walkways with curbs separating them from parking from the mall entrances to the street/rear sidewalk so that the main walking routes are better protected from drivers (the only one now is painted and is not a primary route for pedestrians)

There are a whole lot more drastic things that could be done, but the turn radius one, speaking from personal experience, would probably be the best improvement that could be done relatively cheaply.

This is a great train of thought, and some really good suggestions.

It is simply astonishing the number of large residential buildings which abut large commercial plazas, where a concerted effort is made to prevent customers who live in those buildings from getting to the stores in the plaza.

The problem with a lot of these types of suggestions though is that they require a level of cooperation between private and public interests which is....not common in our community.

The sad thing is you have some private interests, like the Cadillac Fairview, which are seeking to make their developments better in this regard. Unfortunately at least in Fairview's case, it seems they don't have the slightest clue how to do so. They are developing the pedestrian features in their property facing the most unpleasant least walkable area, where a major arterial with crap sidewalks meets a highway interchange. Who do they expect to enjoy walking near there? Mix this with the irony that they also forced a transit terminal off the side of their property which not only had many pedestrians because of transit, but also faced onto a dozen high density residential buildings and developments. Such a missed opportunity.

[jamincan]

Incidentally, the Stanley Park mall is one of the rare examples that has a direct pedestrian connection between an adjacent apartment building and the mall.

[clasher]

The basics on Highland, and the Sobeys, are both pretty easy to walk to; having done so many times myself... definitely could make it easier for those coming from other directions but from downtown it's not terrible. Superstore isn't too bad if you're living around Bankside, or can approach from Queen's blvd. but they could have done a lot better too.

[danbrotherston]

The basics on Highland, and the Sobeys, are both pretty easy to walk to; having done so many times myself... definitely could make it easier for those coming from other directions but from downtown it's not terrible. Superstore isn't too bad if you're living around Bankside, or can approach from Queen's blvd. but they could have done a lot better too.

Sobeys is the grocery store I visit most (pre-pandemic). It is still completely car oriented. I too approach from DTK, and I too think it isn't terrible, but when I get there, I still feel that I am doing something unintended. There is no bike parking, the sidewalk is an after-thought and awkwardly routed, the crossing is missplaced/missing, the building is cut off from the street by a sea of parking, etc. etc. etc.

[tomh009]

If you are coming from DTK by the way of the trail, there is not much parking to cross. And maybe even an island for crossing Belmont, I think?

We always walk there, though, so no experience about additional challenges of bicycling there.

Sure, not designed primarily for active transportation, but not terrible as such.

[plam]

If you are coming from DTK by the way of the trail, there is not much parking to cross. And maybe even an island for crossing Belmont, I think?

We always walk there, though, so no experience about additional challenges of bicycling there.

Sure, not designed primarily for active transportation, but not terrible as such.

I do think direction-of-approach is a key thing to consider. Walkability isn't uniform.

The Sobey's at Bridgeport Plaza got slightly worse bike parking for me after renovations, but not terrible.

I think jamincan's suggestions for small fixes is good. Would be great if someone advocated with the landowner...

[clasher]

There is a crappy little bike rack at Sobeys highland, it's on the ground by the dollar store; that corner seems to be a popular spot for dudes to pee. The rack is among the worst kinds...

[Acitta]

I usually shop at Food Basics in the next mall which has a bike rack out front. As for Sobeys. there is a small bike rack next to the Rexall and the LCBO.

[danbrotherston]

Generally, I secure my bike to a sign post in front of Sobeys. I certainly wouldn't park at the LCBO, even though the racks there are good.

I don't recall seeing one at the Basics, but I could have missed it, I don't go there often.

[jeffster]

The basics on Highland, and the Sobeys, are both pretty easy to walk to; having done so many times myself... definitely could make it easier for those coming from other directions but from downtown it's not terrible. Superstore isn't too bad if you're living around Bankside, or can approach from Queen's blvd. but they could have done a lot better too.

Food Basic for sure is walkable for a lot of people. And the intersection of Westmount and Highland always has a lot of pedestrians. I can't say that I have ever gone through that intersection without seeing at least 2 or 3 people, even late.