ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[KevinL]

There's actually a lot of debate about fare inspection on the TTC at the moment, particularly because they will be introducing plainclothes inspectors.

[Momo26]

Plain clothes...that's interesting!

[ac3r]

Germany and I believe Austria use plainclothes inspectors on their tram/S-bahn and U-bahn trains and it works good there. You don't really see them coming until they're in your car and say "die Fahrkarte bitte!" And they don't mess around - if you are riding without a ticket, you get a €60 fine, even if you're a tourist and have no clue. It seems sufficient to get people to pay for their tickets and passes because they don't want to risk getting slapped with fine after fine.

[Bytor]

Germany and I believe Austria use plainclothes inspectors on their tram/S-bahn and U-bahn trains and it works good there. You don't really see them coming until they're in your car and say "die Fahrkarte bitte!" And they don't mess around - if you are riding without a ticket, you get a €60 fine, even if you're a tourist and have no clue. It seems sufficient to get people to pay for their tickets and passes because they don't want to risk getting slapped with fine after fine.

My only problem with our local fare inspectors is not the inspections, but that the fines are so out of whack with the parking fines.

[tomh009]

Germany and I believe Austria use plainclothes inspectors on their tram/S-bahn and U-bahn trains and it works good there. You don't really see them coming until they're in your car and say "die Fahrkarte bitte!" And they don't mess around - if you are riding without a ticket, you get a €60 fine, even if you're a tourist and have no clue. It seems sufficient to get people to pay for their tickets and passes because they don't want to risk getting slapped with fine after fine.

My only problem with our local fare inspectors is not the inspections, but that the fines are so out of whack with the parking fines.

To me, that's an issue with the parking fines, not with the fare fines.

[danbrotherston]

My only problem with our local fare inspectors is not the inspections, but that the fines are so out of whack with the parking fines.

To me, that's an issue with the parking fines, not with the fare fines.

I think it's a problem with both, all fines should be income geared...

But in any case, I also have a problem with fare inspectors...it's fundamentally anti-transit to continually be asked to prove you paid...if I got inspected once a month, that would be fine, but it's like every third time I ride the damn thing, and to be inspected during an emergency braking situation due to a fucking asshole driver who will never suffer any consequences for his no look turn because doing so offend too many people, well that puts a pretty fine point on it...

[ijmorlan]

But in any case, I also have a problem with fare inspectors...it's fundamentally anti-transit to continually be asked to prove you paid...

How do you think fares should be collected?

I mean, it’s perfectly colorable to argue that there should be turnstiles at the stations or something, but if it’s proof of payment there needs to be inspection at some point.

Is it anti-transit to have to prove you have paid every time you board? That is the system used for buses.

[danbrotherston]

But in any case, I also have a problem with fare inspectors...it's fundamentally anti-transit to continually be asked to prove you paid...

How do you think fares should be collected?

I mean, it’s perfectly colorable to argue that there should be turnstiles at the stations or something, but if it’s proof of payment there needs to be inspection at some point.

Is it anti-transit to have to prove you have paid every time you board? That is the system used for buses.

I know you know the difference between walking through a turnstile and being approached by a uniformed officer and being required to produce proof of payment.

I would much prefer fare paid zones, but even just turning back the dial on the frequency of fare inspections would help. I've had my fare inspected on GO transit (which I ride probably 1/10 as often as GRT) once in 3 years...

And for that matter, start enforcing the rules of the road, where people are actually killed.

Oh, and stop enforcing fares while our fare payment system is in shambles.

[drum118]

Germany and I believe Austria use plainclothes inspectors on their tram/S-bahn and U-bahn trains and it works good there. You don't really see them coming until they're in your car and say "die Fahrkarte bitte!" And they don't mess around - if you are riding without a ticket, you get a €60 fine, even if you're a tourist and have no clue. It seems sufficient to get people to pay for their tickets and passes because they don't want to risk getting slapped with fine after fine.

I can tell you for a fact that Plainclothes inspectors hit trams, S-Bahn and U-Uadan as a mob close to 15 of them at a time.

Riding a tram in Berlin, a mob of people came charging through the doors and thought I was going to have something to me and other riders until they pull out badges as inspectors. They started asking for proof of payment that they started to write tickets to a few right off the bat. I show my 3 day pass and they moved on. By the time we hit the next stop, close to 10 riders had received tickets. 

Saw this on a number of systems and size vary as well time of day.

In Austria, watched in uniform police officers clocking speeders while calling out the number of the vehicle and speed with another looking over his shoulder and writing that info as well time and location. I asked why it was this way and was told that takes too much time to stop the vehicle and interfere with the flow of traffic. They go back to the station and hand a list to a clerk who types up the ticket. The next day, that ticket is hand delivery to the owner of the vehicle address. Once delivery, the owner has 30 days to pay the ticket. If not paid in 31 days, a tow truck hock up the car for impound. The owner must now pay for the towing and impound cost on top of the tickets.
Police
I have heard there are places that your vehicle is sold off after X months and the the owner doesn't sees any money left over after all cost are paid out. You can end up spending time in jail after X months for tickets as well. Some fine could cost a person a month or 2 wages, unlike here where it be a few days or a week.
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[ijmorlan]

How do you think fares should be collected?

I mean, it’s perfectly colorable to argue that there should be turnstiles at the stations or something, but if it’s proof of payment there needs to be inspection at some point.

Is it anti-transit to have to prove you have paid every time you board? That is the system used for buses.

I know you know the difference between walking through a turnstile and being approached by a uniformed officer and being required to produce proof of payment.

I would much prefer fare paid zones, but even just turning back the dial on the frequency of fare inspections would help. I've had my fare inspected on GO transit (which I ride probably 1/10 as often as GRT) once in 3 years...

And for that matter, start enforcing the rules of the road, where people are actually killed.

Oh, and stop enforcing fares while our fare payment system is in shambles.

These are all good points. That being said, I don’t see what is wrong with having to present ones ticket/card sometimes; I think the right response to these points is to fix the other thing — enforce the rules of the road, fix the fare devices, etc. — rather than necessarily to change the fare enforcement method. Although if it is common to be enforced multiple times in a single trip then I can agree that maybe they are doing more than is necessary.

[Spokes]

I can't speak to Ottawa's new LRT system, but in four years of riding the original OTrain intermittently, I only saw one person checking fares

Also more aggressive than metrolinx, I've only been checked once or twice on metrolinx, I probably get checked every other or every third ride on GRT.

Are they paranoid that people will take advantage of a new system?

[danbrotherston]

[panamaniac]

[danbrotherston]

[Momo26]

That's a weird spot. I walk that stretch daily. The Full Circle Foods parking lot exits directly on to the track. Based on where the car's damage was, the fact it was hitched on the tow truck next to the train (but on the road), one could surmise it was about to make a right into the parking lot - all there is, is a sign that says 'no turning, train'. I suppose if not paying close enough attention, could overlook this. There are no barriers that come down like they do on Courtland at the one dealership.