ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[trainspotter139]

I just saw an unverified and unconfirmed rumour that there are two more vehicles coming February in the Waterloo rapid transit Facebook group. Anyone know anything about this?

Last I heard about it we were getting a single loaner from Bombardier while the vehicles that are affected by the same welding defects as the TTC streetcars undergo service to correct the recalled defect. That plan could have been revised since then.

[danbrotherston]

I just saw an unverified and unconfirmed rumour that there are two more vehicles coming February in the Waterloo rapid transit Facebook group. Anyone know anything about this?

This is from the person who heard it from their friend but doesn't know their friends name? I don't find that all reliable.

I do recall there was a roadmap for more trains but I didn't think it was this soon. They aren't even up to the current full fleet.

[trainspotter139]

I just saw an unverified and unconfirmed rumour that there are two more vehicles coming February in the Waterloo rapid transit Facebook group. Anyone know anything about this?

This is from the person who heard it from their friend but doesn't know their friends name? I don't find that all reliable.

I do recall there was a roadmap for more trains but I didn't think it was this soon. They aren't even up to the current full fleet.

There are a number of trains (can't remember how many) that are affected by the frame weld defect recall that Bombardier has planned to service in the near future. Last I heard it was only 1 more train we were getting to keep us at the same fleet numbers, but that recall service plan could have changed since I heard about it. The would need to be here pretty early on in the new year to break them in for in-service use.

[neonjoe]

I believe the initial business plan had 16 vehicles in 2021 (after 4 years of operation)
20 in 2025 (now with some trips with coupled pairs)
23 in 2031
27 in 2036
30 in 2041
33 in 2046

Maybe it’s a delivery for the 2021 vehicles, or it could be extras to deal with the reliability issues that are preventing the 8 minute frequency.

[taylortbb]

I just saw an unverified and unconfirmed rumour that there are two more vehicles coming February in the Waterloo rapid transit Facebook group. Anyone know anything about this?

I've gotten confirmation we are NOT getting any new trains. Can't rule out a loaner for warranty work, but we're definitely not increasing the fleet size.

[KevinL]

Hmm, I wonder if a loaner would be in the Crosstown colour scheme (gray exterior instead of blue, green seat fabric).

[Bob_McBob]

Last I heard about it we were getting a single loaner from Bombardier while the vehicles that are affected by the same welding defects as the TTC streetcars undergo service to correct the recalled defect. That plan could have been revised since then.

Has it been confirmed if any of the region's vehicles are affected? I thought almost all of them had their frames welded at a different plant other than maybe 501.

[jeffster]

Waiting eagerly for a response from the Woolwich Observer regarding the LRT.....

[drum118]

ION cars were built in Kingston.

So far, TTC cars welds are being done at BBD La Pocatière, Québec plant, but delivery them back to TTC is another story. BBD plan call for a 19 week turn around for each car, but has yet to meet that time frame.

4401 was the first car to set the stage what had to be done from start to finish for the other 66 following it. Time frame for turn around would be longer which is standard for the first few cars. 4400 was loaded at TTC Hillcrest September 07, 2018 and was return October 03, 2019. It reenter service November 21, 2019.

4401 was loaded May 14, 2018 and was shipped to Thunder Bay to be rebuilt as a production car a few months ago and still there.

4406 was loaded May 01, 2019 and off loaded at TTC Hillcrest yard December 16, 2019. It still not tracking nor has done the standard burn like all cars must go through. 

All TTC cars so far that have been release from La Pocatière, Québec plant have gone to Kingston plant for some unknown reason before going to TTC.

No TTC car has yet to meet the 19 week turn around and don't expect any ION cars will see that time frame met if BBD said X weeks are going to be to fix the weld issues.

Any loaner will be in Metrolinx colors unless they decide to paint it in ION colors. Since there are cars schedule for 2021, that car could be a loaner in ION colors until cars are repair and then become part of the fleet sooner than later.

[Bob_McBob]

Back in 2018, Canard said he was under the impression every ION frame except 501 was actually welded in La Pocatière and shouldn't be affected by the recall. 501 was on the tail end of the issues with Sahagun/Thunder Bay and could be affected. That's why I'm wondering if there is any confirmation of issues with our vehicles.

[neonjoe]

The posts about the two additional trains showed up on cptdb way back in November. Most of the users on that forum seem to be employees of transit agencies, this gives a bit more credit to the rumour.

[Bob_McBob]

Here's the original operating plan:

Timeframe	# vehicles	peak headway	max # double vehicles
2021-2024	16	8 min	0
2025-2030	20	7.5 min	3
2031-2035	23	7 min	6
2036-2040	27	7 min	9
2041-2045	30	7 min	12
2046-2047	33	7 min	all

[danbrotherston]

Here's the original operating plan:

Timeframe	# vehicles	peak headway	max # double vehicles
2021-2024	16	8 min	0
2025-2030	20	7.5 min	3
2031-2035	23	7 min	6
2036-2040	27	7 min	9
2041-2045	30	7 min	12
2046-2047	33	7 min	all

Ugh, why sticking at 7 minute headways....more frequent service is so much better.

[ijmorlan]

Here's the original operating plan:

Ugh, why sticking at 7 minute headways....more frequent service is so much better.

Yes, I think we should go to 5 minute headways before going to multi-vehicle trains. Around 5 minutes is where one really stops worrying about the schedule. Right now lots of LRT trips are probably shorter than the wait to get on.

[danbrotherston]

Ugh, why sticking at 7 minute headways....more frequent service is so much better.

Yes, I think we should go to 5 minute headways before going to multi-vehicle trains. Around 5 minutes is where one really stops worrying about the schedule. Right now lots of LRT trips are probably shorter than the wait to get on.

Frankly, I think we should go to the lowest feasible headway with our signalling system, before we double trains, but of course, that costs more money, and possibly, more of a problem for those in charge, more delays to cars.  Five minutes would certainly be good.

I do think a priority should be getting off peak delays down as well.