ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[kps]

From MTO site:

Saw that.  That shows an example and the text says they are marked with signs.  What I'm looking for is a HTA definition of "railway crossing signal".

The Highway Traffic Act doesn't have one. I think you want the federal Grade Crossings Standards referenced by the Grade Crossings Regulations under the Railway Safety Act.

[jamincan]

Saw that.  That shows an example and the text says they are marked with signs.  What I'm looking for is a HTA definition of "railway crossing signal".

The Highway Traffic Act doesn't have one. I think you want the federal Grade Crossings Standards referenced by the Grade Crossings Regulations under the Railway Safety Act.

Since the HTA doesn't reference the Railway Safety Act, would this specific definition apply? It's logical, sure, but I'm not a lawyer and don't know if the law works like that.

[trainspotter139]

The Highway Traffic Act doesn't have one. I think you want the federal Grade Crossings Standards referenced by the Grade Crossings Regulations under the Railway Safety Act.

Since the HTA doesn't reference the Railway Safety Act, would this specific definition apply? It's logical, sure, but I'm not a lawyer and don't know if the law works like that.

The Federal definition supersedes any references in the Provincial traffic acts under the National Concern Branch of Peace, Order and Good Governance in the Constitution.

[ijmorlan]

Saw that.  That shows an example and the text says they are marked with signs.  What I'm looking for is a HTA definition of "railway crossing signal".

The Highway Traffic Act doesn't have one. I think you want the federal Grade Crossings Standards referenced by the Grade Crossings Regulations under the Railway Safety Act.

I’m pretty sure the on-street sections of the LRT don’t involve railway crossings. The various special traffic signals are special traffic signals, not railway crossing signals.

If I understand correctly.

[KevinL]

So this is concerning in a couple of ways.

Man charged with assaulting Grand River Transit security guard
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/953...ity-guard/

A person capable of wielding broken glass in this sort of situation is certainly one you don't want on your transit system.

That said, he 'had previously been issued a trespass notice for all GRT and LRT property', and this happened at Central Station, which occupies the entirety of the sidewalk there. Is he required to detour around all roads with sidewalk platforms when walking downtown?

[avernar]

The Highway Traffic Act doesn't have one. I think you want the federal Grade Crossings Standards referenced by the Grade Crossings Regulations under the Railway Safety Act.

The Railway Safety Act doesn't define any signals for light rail by the looks of it.

[avernar]

Since the HTA doesn't reference the Railway Safety Act, would this specific definition apply? It's logical, sure, but I'm not a lawyer and don't know if the law works like that.

From this page: https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/reviews/railway-...17-18.html

"In addition, concerns were noted over the expansion of light rail transit, given differing standards for tracks, signals and crossings for provincially-regulated light passenger operations and intersections of these local and regional transit systems with slower, heavier, federally-regulated freight rail operations."

So looks like LRT is provincially regulated.

[ijmorlan]

So this is concerning in a couple of ways.

Man charged with assaulting Grand River Transit security guard
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/953...ity-guard/

A person capable of wielding broken glass in this sort of situation is certainly one you don't want on your transit system.

That said, he 'had previously been issued a trespass notice for all GRT and LRT property', and this happened at Central Station, which occupies the entirety of the sidewalk there. Is he required to detour around all roads with sidewalk platforms when walking downtown?

At that stop I’m pretty sure there is additional sidewalk beyond the platform. Certainly there is concrete surface behind the shelter. I don’t think the same is true at other downtown stops. That being said, I don’t have a problem with anybody who does that being banned from a few sidewalks here and there. If he doesn’t like it he can go to jail or learn to be peaceful instead if he prefers.

[trainspotter139]

Since the HTA doesn't reference the Railway Safety Act, would this specific definition apply? It's logical, sure, but I'm not a lawyer and don't know if the law works like that.

From this page: https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/reviews/railway-...17-18.html

"In addition, concerns were noted over the expansion of light rail transit, given differing standards for tracks, signals and crossings for provincially-regulated light passenger operations and intersections of these local and regional transit systems with slower, heavier, federally-regulated freight rail operations."

So looks like LRT is provincially regulated.

Not all of it is. As soon as rail grade crossings or federally regulated rail right-of-ways are involved those sections with rail grade crossings or federally regulated rail right-of-ways become federally regulated.

[avernar]

Not all of it is. As soon as rail grade crossings or federally regulated rail right-of-ways are involved those sections with rail grade crossings or federally regulated rail right-of-ways become federally regulated.

True.  But my point was that the electronic no left/right turn signs might be considered a "railway crossing signal" under the HTA.  I was looking for legislation on what they had to look like.  The HTA doesn't have it and the federal regs don't apply.

So they might be able to use 163.1 to charge someone but it would be stretching things.

[Coke6pk]

The regulations on signage do not include a railway crossing. The assumption that the Federal laws govern what must be displaced at those crossings.

That being said, an LRT crossing would NOT be a "Railway Crossing", and therefore 163.1 would not apply.

Coke

[danbrotherston]

So this is concerning in a couple of ways.

Man charged with assaulting Grand River Transit security guard
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/953...ity-guard/

A person capable of wielding broken glass in this sort of situation is certainly one you don't want on your transit system.

That said, he 'had previously been issued a trespass notice for all GRT and LRT property', and this happened at Central Station, which occupies the entirety of the sidewalk there. Is he required to detour around all roads with sidewalk platforms when walking downtown?

At that stop I’m pretty sure there is additional sidewalk beyond the platform. Certainly there is concrete surface behind the shelter. I don’t think the same is true at other downtown stops. That being said, I don’t have a problem with anybody who does that being banned from a few sidewalks here and there. If he doesn’t like it he can go to jail or learn to be peaceful instead if he prefers.

Not in all locations. See Vic park and city hall stations. 

We had this question regarding fare paid regs. 

Which in fact extend, am I not allowed to wait until a train is arriving before tapping.

[danbrotherston]

(a) There are only three charges that the HTA allows to be enforced by camera.  1. Fail to Stop - Red Light, 2. Fail to Stop/Yeild - Amber Light and 3. Speeding [Yes, Photo Radar DOES exist in the current HTA]

The police may be able to warn someone observed by video evidence... a charge wouldn't stick.

(b) There is no reason why someone blowing a red light or making a turn in front of train in the centre of the road shouldn't be charged.  But before you blame the police for being lazy, check out the HTA for a definition of a no-turn sign:

21. (1) A no right turn sign shall,
(a) be not less than 60 centimetres in height and not less than 60 centimetres in width; and
(b) include the markings and the dimensions as described and illustrated in the following Figure:

Illustration of a sign with a no right turn symbol consisting of a right turn black arrow inside a red circle with an interdictory stroke, on white retro-reflective background with a black border. Size indicated (60 × 60) cm.
R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 615, s. 21 (1); O. Reg. 339/09, s. 15 (1).

Bolding was me.  Anyone see an issue with enforcement?  To the Region's defence, there is now a by-law covering electronic turn signs.

Coke

Regarding enforcement, I am unclear what allows those charges to be enforced with camera, but I suspect it has to do with issuing a charge against a vehicle and not a driver. I don't think there is anything preventing WRPS from asking a driver to tell them who was driving their car at x time on y day, okay now we charge that individual with the ticket based on the video evidence and statement together.

[plam]

Regarding enforcement, I am unclear what allows those charges to be enforced with camera, but I suspect it has to do with issuing a charge against a vehicle and not a driver. I don't think there is anything preventing WRPS from asking a driver to tell them who was driving their car at x time on y day, okay now we charge that individual with the ticket based on the video evidence and statement together.

Most people probably would tell WRPS, but I don't think there is any obligation to tell them (and in that case no one would get a ticket...)

[ijmorlan]

Most people probably would tell WRPS, but I don't think there is any obligation to tell them (and in that case no one would get a ticket...)

See, that is the problem. The way it should work is the owner gets the ticket, unless they testify as to who was borrowing the car from them at that time and that person gets the ticket (if they contest it, back to the owner’s liability for the ticket), or if they report the car stolen (meaning that whoever was operating the car at the time would be criminally liable for car theft, or it would go back to the owner possibly with an additional charge of perjury in the event the person actually borrowed it and didn’t steal it).

Cars are sufficiently dangerous that owners need to be held responsible for anything that is done with them.

If owners don’t like it, they can be careful about to whom they lend their vehicles.