ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[ijmorlan]

Page 1000!

I had been wondering whether it would arrive before Ion opened. Only missed it by a couple of weeks.

[trainspotter139]

ATP is not required for full speed for the time being.

Then why don’t they run at full speed? I don’t believe they are exceeding 50km/h on the ATP sections even though speeds up to 70km/h are posted in many areas.

The vehicles themselves aren't currently allowing them to travel at full speeds due to an unrelated issue. They don't need to run at full speeds though to comply with the travel time requirements.

[taylortbb]

Then why don’t they run at full speed? I don’t believe they are exceeding 50km/h on the ATP sections even though speeds up to 70km/h are posted in many areas.

The vehicles themselves aren't currently allowing them to travel at full speeds due to an unrelated issue. They don't need to run at full speeds though to comply with the travel time requirements.

Can you share details of the unrelated issue? Very curious.

[timc]

Yep. That is pretty standard stop-sign behaviour around here too. When you use stop signs for traffic calming, people will start to ignore them and treat them as yields.

[MidTowner]

It's true that stop signs make for poor traffic calming. Hereabouts, they are not generally advised by planners expressly for traffic calming (since motorists ignore them, and tend to accelerate hard after passing them), but it's true that they have been in the past.

There is very little enforcement. Maybe it's just not cost effective to enforce this kind of traffic violation when the only way to do it is to use police officers who generally make six figure salaries.

What's the solution then? I'd agree that we should get rid of a lot of stop signs and instead reduce vehicle speeds (by using infrastructure that makes speeding a real challenge). There would still be call for stop signs in some places- would it really be the case that, with relatively fewer of them, people would start taking them seriously?

[jamincan]

Lower neighbourhood speed limits to a hard 30kph, but replace stop signs with yields? That's something I might get behind.

[danbrotherston]

[MidTowner]

I have yet to have proof of payment demanded of me, though I have seen the inspectors aboard; I take Ion twice daily, sometimes a third time. But my first ride is at 6:30.

This morning at GRH, the card reader presented an error message the first two times I tapped. Only on the third try did it take. But it did work for me, eventually. I wonder how many riders might have (quite reasonably) just given up.

Departure times are still not being displayed, it seems.

[tomh009]

What's the solution then? I'd agree that we should get rid of a lot of stop signs and instead reduce vehicle speeds (by using infrastructure that makes speeding a real challenge). There would still be call for stop signs in some places- would it really be the case that, with relatively fewer of them, people would start taking them seriously?

Effectively most people are treating the stop signs as yield signs already.

In Europe, where yield signs are far more common, the less-frequent stop signs do get more respect.

[plam]

I have yet to have proof of payment demanded of me, though I have seen the inspectors aboard; I take Ion twice daily, sometimes a third time. But my first ride is at 6:30.

This morning at GRH, the card reader presented an error message the first two times I tapped. Only on the third try did it take. But it did work for me, eventually. I wonder how many riders might have (quite reasonably) just given up.

Departure times are still not being displayed, it seems.

The Ticket Vending Machines continue to eat bills. This easyGo system seems like a complete fiasco. My spouse put in a $20 bill yesterday after we had forgotten to set up autoload on her card and the machine just ate it. We've called in to GRT and I think that they are going to mail us cheques maybe?

[jeffster]

Wow. I do have to point out that to my knowledge the poster of the video is incorrect in that Ontario is not a “timed stop” jurisdiction — all you have to do is stop, then proceed when it is safe and everybody who has right of way is out of the way. Also when there is truly nobody around (not other traffic, not pedestrians, nobody) I really don’t see any reason why a full stop is any better than almost stopping. But some parts of the video almost look like those photos of traffic in India where everybody just edges forward until the other traffic yields.

The LRT problems, however, clearly stem from a pervasive ignoring of signals of all types.

But therein lies the problem. It's the attitude that it doesn't matter if anyone isn't around. So we start yielding at stop signs rather than stop, at a "STOP" sign. It then leads to drivers running reds when 'no one is around', and pulling other illegal maneuvers, such as what we're seeing with the LRT. Left on no-left turn red lights (example is Ottawa St S eastbound at Westmount northbound), going right on no-right turn red lights, u-turning at no u-turns. Ignoring stop signs and red lights altogether. What happens then is that people are so used to no stopping at stop signs that it becomes second nature for them disobey traffic signs. Then it goes to the no-turn red lights, no u-turns, red lights, etc. Poor driving habits is another way to put it. STOP signs are never, ever, YIELD signs, so we shouldn't ever treat like a YIELD sign.

I do recall an incident where a motorist didn't stop at a stop sign because 'no was around' and was t-boned by someone that had the right away -- but apparently came out of 'no where'. Magically, of course. The real issue was the driver in the wrong getting used to the idea of not stopping, just yields, or even timing stop signs (so you see traffic at a two-way stop, but calculate you have enough time to carry-on as if you had no stop sign safely).

I agree, though, that stop signs are not timed events. You come to a complete stop then proceed to do so if safe.

[KevinT]

I had my first experience with fare inspection this morning.

I'd tapped in at Block Line heading north, and the inspectors apparently boarded at Central wearing the yellow Transit Security vests that I've seen before. I didn't notice them boarding but there was an announcement "Fare inspectors onboard, show proof of payment." The two inspectors had boarded at opposite ends and worked their way to the middle, using terminals that looked similar to restaurant debit machines but which probably also had barcode scanners in their ends (I didn't get to see a paper transfers being scanned to confirm).

Despite the train having full seats and about 20 standing passengers, they were done and had met in the middle by Grand River Hospital thanks to everyone having their cards/transfers ready for inspection due to the announcement. As far as I could tell they didn't have to ticket or warn anybody, and they got off at Laurier / Waterloo Park station.

I was impressed by how courteous, fast, and efficient the whole process was. Well done guys!

[jeffster]

Lower neighbourhood speed limits to a hard 30kph, but replace stop signs with yields? That's something I might get behind.

You could, but understand that most drivers don't know what 'yield' means. Not to mention that most people don't signal anymore either, so even if yielding was allowed, I think you'd see more accidents because you're not yielding to the correct drivers (not really your fault).

Also not sure if any solution would help in reducing LRT mishaps.

Also confused as to what the job of the police are now-a-days. We have over 800 sworn officers with a $150M budget. I can't see them all involved in major crimes all the time.

I think what needs to be done is less speed traps on those lower speed, low pedestrian streets where speed traps are easy money. More training for the police themselves to learn how to drive, as they're up there is taxi drivers at being horrible drivers, and the public does notice. They also need to break less. Where I work, for example, we're a public (government) building with a large parking lot, and it's very common for several times a day police randomly choosing a place to stop and chat with their co-workers. These should be 10 minute or 20 minute breaks (and I believe the police get paid for 8 hours work in an 8 hour shift with 2 10 minute breaks and 1 20 minute break, all paid). Not 3 45 to 75-minute breaks that they're taking. Then the police need to start blitzing for these traffic violations. For example, along the LRT line between King and Union, have 3 or 4 officers at these hotspots to ticket anyone violating any traffic law. Go to busy 3-way or 4-way stops, and ticket violators there.

Just some suggestions....

[bgb_ca]

I had my first experience with fare inspection this morning.

I'd tapped in at Block Line heading north, and the inspectors apparently boarded at Central wearing the yellow Transit Security vests that I've seen before.  I didn't notice them boarding but there was an announcement "Fare inspectors onboard, show proof of payment."  The two inspectors had boarded at opposite ends and worked their way to the middle, using terminals that looked similar to restaurant debit machines but which probably also had barcode scanners in their ends (I didn't get to see a paper transfers being scanned to confirm).

Despite the train having full seats and about 20 standing passengers, they were done and had met in the middle by Grand River Hospital thanks to everyone having their cards/transfers ready for inspection due to the announcement.  As far as I could tell they didn't have to ticket or warn anybody, and they got off at Laurier / Waterloo Park station.

I was impressed by how courteous, fast, and efficient the whole process was.  Well done guys!

They can scan bar codes (I've seen it). They also caught me on a missed tap (machine appearantly didn't read my card) but just told me since I have a monthly pass (they can see that) to just be sure the machine shows the tap was successful before I walk away from it. (The bad tap was at R&T north side which sometimes displays card info instead of a registered tap).

[KevinT]

They can scan bar codes (I've seen it). They also caught me on a missed tap (machine appearantly didn't read my card) but just told me since I have a monthly pass (they can see that) to just be sure the machine shows the tap was successful before I walk away from it. (The bad tap was at R&T north side which sometimes displays card info instead of a registered tap).

I've had similar bad taps at the north side of R&T Park, but fortunately was looking at the screen and caught it and so tapped again. My theory at the time was that somebody before me had pushed the podium button for a card check and that there's no timeout on that operation so the modifier was still hanging around when I tapped my card. If you've had the same thing happen in the same place however, maybe it is a flat out bug.