ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[bgb_ca]

I'm sure that will go over well. I would imagine any potential litigation would be except from a FOI request.

[danbrotherston]

The Record has officially announced they intend to milk the FOI request denial for all it's worth. They will be appealing the denial and will be "writing further stories" about it. Also their reporter helpfully describes ION as "almost two years overdue".

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/922...d-foi-lrt/

Well, it is "almost 2 years overdue".  That being said, I don't think they should be pushing on the request.  I can see why neither the region, nor metrolinx would want to be open about this, given it is an active negotiation and implementation.  ONLY the public looses if we make these details public.  I wish people saw that.

[jeffster]

The Record has officially announced they intend to milk the FOI request denial for all it's worth. They will be appealing the denial and will be "writing further stories" about it. Also their reporter helpfully describes ION as "almost two years overdue".

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/922...d-foi-lrt/

Unsure what to think.

That said, it was The Record that broke the RIM fiasco that the idiots in Waterloo got involved in. And at that time that the story broke, no one at city hall or on council realized they had been ripped off (reading wasn't mandatory at that time, I guess).

As for the train being overdue, it will be close to 2 years once it gets going, assuming it starts in the actual spring (not what the region thinks spring is, which is anytime before October).

[trainspotter139]

The Record has officially announced they intend to milk the FOI request denial for all it's worth. They will be appealing the denial and will be "writing further stories" about it. Also their reporter helpfully describes ION as "almost two years overdue".

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/922...d-foi-lrt/

Unsure what to think.

That said, it was The Record that broke the RIM fiasco that the idiots in Waterloo got involved in. And at that time that the story broke, no one at city hall or on council realized they had been ripped off (reading wasn't mandatory at that time, I guess).

As for the train being overdue, it will be close to 2 years once it gets going, assuming it starts in the actual spring (not what the region thinks spring is, which is anytime before October).

The 2 year amount is not really true. July 2017 was the timeline for substantial completion of the construction. Fall 2017 was the timeline given for service start since the contract was signed.

[ijmorlan]

The 2 year amount is not really true. July 2017 was the timeline for substantial completion of the construction. Fall 2017 was the timeline given for service start since the contract was signed.

So depending on when it actually starts and what “close” means, saying it’s close to 2 years may end up being perfectly fair. Say it opens in June. Then it’s only 3 months short of 2 years, assuming we take September 2017 as the original opening time.

[Bob_McBob]

Most of the early ION updates refer to "late 2017" for the start of service. We aren't "almost two years" from late 2017 right now, and the public is confused enough about the timeline in the first place. Reporters need to use clearer language when describing that sort of thing. I'm quite prepared to believe it will be almost two years late when all is said and done, but it's not almost two years late right now.

[dunkalunk]

I don't quite understand the urgency or newsworthiness of knowing non-final numbers for damages for a system that hasn't started running yet. We're pretty sure the region will be seeking legal action whether that be a settlement or arbitration or what have you. Would knowing how much the region is planning to ask for help or hinder success in actually receiving compensation?

[danbrotherston]

I don't quite understand the urgency or newsworthiness of knowing non-final numbers for damages for a system that hasn't started running yet. We're pretty sure the region will be seeking legal action whether that be a settlement or arbitration or what have you. Would knowing how much the region is planning to ask for help or hinder success in actually receiving compensation?

Hinder definitely.  It would also hinder getting the system up and running.

I see no value in this information right now.  I'm a little annoyed it's being made a big deal of, it's mostly beneficial politically and for driving clicks.

[ijmorlan]

I don't quite understand the urgency or newsworthiness of knowing non-final numbers for damages for a system that hasn't started running yet. We're pretty sure the region will be seeking legal action whether that be a settlement or arbitration or what have you. Would knowing how much the region is planning to ask for help or hinder success in actually receiving compensation?

Hinder definitely.  It would also hinder getting the system up and running.

I see no value in this information right now.  I'm a little annoyed it's being made a big deal of, it's mostly beneficial politically and for driving clicks.

I want to say that if they had been more open about sharing information in general, this wouldn’t be an issue. Unfortunately, I don’t actually believe that. Muckrakers ’gonna muckrake.

[trainspotter139]

Hinder definitely.  It would also hinder getting the system up and running.

I see no value in this information right now.  I'm a little annoyed it's being made a big deal of, it's mostly beneficial politically and for driving clicks.

I want to say that if they had been more open about sharing information in general, this wouldn’t be an issue. Unfortunately, I don’t actually believe that. Muckrakers ’gonna muckrake.

This kind of information is always advised to remain private even after a negotiated settlement is reached as releasing it can undercut legal cases. However, what usually ends up happening in vehicle procurement disputes for late deliveries is the compensation is paid in additional vehicles and the spare parts to go with them so I don't necessarily expect any money to be changing hands.

[ijmorlan]

I want to say that if they had been more open about sharing information in general, this wouldn’t be an issue. Unfortunately, I don’t actually believe that. Muckrakers ’gonna muckrake.

This kind of information is always advised to remain private even after a negotiated settlement is reached as releasing it can undercut legal cases. However, what usually ends up happening in vehicle procurement disputes for late deliveries is the compensation is paid in additional vehicles and the spare parts to go with them so I don't necessarily expect any money to be changing hands.

By “in general” I meant about progress all along — e.g. if they had actually done what they said they would do and provide a monthly update on vehicle status, and if they actually shared anything about what specifically was happening in testing (not to mention the various minor fixes that have been done in the last year or so). Not necessarily details about disputes with suppliers.

But as I said, I don’t really believe that appropriate openness would have headed off all the attempts to construct scandal.

[Canard]

[robdrimmie]

I was walking past Victoria Park station this morning when the 507 pulled in and stopped. There were very pleasant chimes and noises upon arrival and again when it pulled away perhaps 30 seconds later. They didn't open the doors and there were no sandbags, there weren't people getting on and off etc so this was probably more driver (pilot? engineer?) training than burn in or anything but it was the first time I'd heard the chimes. I quite like them.

[KevinT]

On my way back from lunch last Friday I overheard on the radio that there was testing going on at the Cameron crossover and that training runs were looping between Fairway and Mill as a result. I stopped at Cameron to observe, they had the plastic bags off the signal heads and a tech in the signal house near Market station. An LRV was on the northbound track shuffling back and forth between Cameron and Kitchener Market, and at one point I saw the crossover signals change from red to green and back as the LRV approached. I couldn't hang around to see how it ended but as I walked back to my car I saw that the switch points had moved without anyone having done so manually, so that was a good sign. When I drove by Saturday the signals were bagged again, but at least it seems that they're finally working on them. So far they've either been bagged or perpetually red with LRVs radio'ing for permission to proceed after stopping. Can't wait to see them up and running properly soon!

[danbrotherston]

On my way back from lunch last Friday I overheard on the radio that there was testing going on at the Cameron crossover and that training runs were looping between Fairway and Mill as a result.  I stopped at Cameron to observe, they had the plastic bags off the signal heads and a tech in the signal house near Market station.  An LRV was on the northbound track shuffling back and forth between Cameron and Kitchener Market, and at one point I saw the crossover signals change from red to green and back as the LRV approached.  I couldn't hang around to see how it ended but as I walked back to my car I saw that the switch points had moved without anyone having done so manually, so that was a good sign.  When I drove by Saturday the signals were bagged again, but at least it seems that they're finally working on them.  So far they've either been bagged or perpetually red with LRVs radio'ing for permission to proceed after stopping.  Can't wait to see them up and running properly soon!

That is exciting.  As recently as Sunday they were bagged, so this is a new development.

I cannot imagine though that testing this system will be a short process.