ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[embe]

The signs have to say 'no stopping' which encompasses all possibilities including 'no parking'.  If there is 'no stopping', then obviously there is 'no parking' either. The 'no stopping' is the most strict of all the prohibitions when you think of it.

Makes sense that you shouldn't stop on the tracks, but let's say an ambulance/cop/firetruck is making way behind you with sirens lights and the whole shebang?   Do you yield to the right in this case with tracks at grade level?  . 

I can see joggers and cyclists using that path, even drivers. 

Especially drivers when visibility is the way it's been the last couple days, might look like an open lane when covered in snow/slush

[Canard]

Makes sense that you shouldn't stop on the tracks, but let's say an ambulance/cop/firetruck is making way behind you with sirens lights and the whole shebang?   Do you yield to the right in this case with tracks at grade level?  . 

That's a great question. It's a situation that could come up on Borden, Ottawa, King (between Allen and Erb) and Caroline (between Erb and Allen).

I imagine that in those situations, trains would probably slow down significantly (if not stop), with the expectation that there might be a lot of people confused about what to do and be mounting up onto the rapidway over the shallow curbs.

[Canard]

If it was an active construction zone it should be barricaded off.

So is what we're saying here is that it's not okay for cars to park on the (currently) unused rapidway because it develops bad habits, but it is okay for joggers and cyclists to run on it, since they're somehow immune to developing those very same bad habits?

[danbrotherston]

I believe what is being said is that there's lots of parking available, even if not right at the Tannery, just across the street, so there is no need beyond a short walk and free parking to park on the rapidway. On the other hand, when there are no sidewalks, because they're ripped up and under construction, it is far more understandable that someone might walk there. Context does matter.

[SammyOES2]

So is what we're saying here is that it's not okay for cars to park on the (currently) unused rapidway because it develops bad habits, but it is okay for joggers and cyclists to run on it, since they're somehow immune to developing those very same bad habits?

Lol, yup.  Although I honestly don't really get what the big deal is in either case.

[ijmorlan]

If it was an active construction zone it should be barricaded off.

So is what we're saying here is that it's not okay for cars to park on the (currently) unused rapidway because it develops bad habits, but it is okay for joggers and cyclists to run on it, since they're somehow immune to developing those very same bad habits?

To be fair, you said it was an active construction zone, which appears not to be the case — it’s a completed section of rapidway which is no longer under construction and not yet in use. Also, somehow I feel that active transportation users are less likely to develop bad habits than car drivers. There is something about not being protected by a steel cage that at least in some people focusses the mind.

Having said that, I’m certainly not going to develop a habit of using the tracks in that way, although I might take one trip like that “while I can”.

Also, parking causes a problem for the entire duration of the parking and may require a tow to resolve. All other proposed uses can cease at any instant when a train comes along.

[Canard]

Also, somehow I feel that active transportation users are less likely to develop bad habits than car drivers. There is something about not being protected by a steel cage that at least in some people focusses the mind.

I... I don't even know how to respond to that.  Wow.   I totally disagree. There are good drivers and bad drivers. There are good cyclists and bad cyclists. There are good pedestrians and bad pedestrians. Unless you want to start quoting data and do a study, your statement doesn't fly.

Also, parking causing a problem for the entire duration of the parking and may require a tow to resolve. All other proposed uses can cease at any instant when a train comes along.

Yep, they cease instantly when a train comes along, and it hits them and kills them, because they had their headphones in or were texting and not paying attention.  I'm just curious, and I think I know the answer, but do you guys actually have any clue how many fatalities there are per year on LRT systems in the US?  I'm getting the feeling that this is something very few are actually aware of, and are going to be in for a very rude awakening once service starts.

Have a look at this...

[plam]

Also, somehow I feel that active transportation users are less likely to develop bad habits than car drivers. There is something about not being protected by a steel cage that at least in some people focusses the mind.

I... I don't even know how to respond to that.  Wow.    I totally disagree.  There are good drivers and bad drivers.  There are good cyclists and bad cyclists.  There are good pedestrians and bad pedestrians.  Unless you want to start quoting data and do a study, your statement doesn't fly.

Also, parking causing a problem for the entire duration of the parking and may require a tow to resolve. All other proposed uses can cease at any instant when a train comes along.

Yep, they cease instantly when a train comes along, and it hits them and kills them, because they had their headphones in or were texting and not paying attention.  I'm just curious, and I think I know the answer, but do you guys actually have any clue how many fatalities there are per year on LRT systems in the US?  I'm getting the feeling that this is something very few are actually aware of, and are going to be in for a very rude awakening once service starts.

Perhaps less than would be killed by cars?

We're not in Thailand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRVaGV47C8I

[Viewfromthe42]

Fundamentally, no one should be on the rapidway, except in designated crossing areas at permissible crossing times.

We accept that there may be some bending of this, with the example given for cars or emergency vehicles to squeeze onto the rapidway to help emergency vehicles get to their destinations more quickly.

I will probably accept that a careful, considerate pedestrian/cyclist should be able to cross in other locations, only when absolutely clear that it is safe to do so. I understand that the experiences of others will never allow themselves to do this, nor to be comfortable with anyone else doing it.

Parking on the tracks will never be acceptable, and is not a good stand-in for pedestrians crossing the tracks. Leaving a permanent obstacle on the tracks is different than a person being on the tracks and immediately able to move off. Even a car using it as a turning lane can't magically hop onto the sidewalk the way a pedestrian or cyclist can (and a driver going on the rapidway, especially if in the wrong direction, adds an unexpected situation for others to recognize and be endangered by, just like a car driving down the Iron Horse Trail).

[chutten]

I'm just curious, and I think I know the answer, but do you guys actually have any clue how many fatalities there are per year on LRT systems in the US?

There were 40 in 2012. More recent figures are preliminary (yes, this is from the 2016 report. No, I don't know why their information products are so out of date) but say 33 for 2013 and 39 for 2014.

Probably safe to say: Some tens of humans are killed in the US by light rail each year.

Yes, the lives saved by more efficient transport; Yes, the economic benefit of a transit system; Yes, the order of magnitude difference in fatalities compared to automotive transport (disputed, I don't have a source for this. Someone will need to find the # of passenger miles attributed to both modes for normalization); Yes the knock-on benefits to environment, urban intensification...

But. Those are still fatalities, those are still people who die, and those are going to happen to our system in our lifetimes and possibly to someone we know. And it will be used to vilify the system, the operators, the riders, and the supporters.

Are there are steps Grandlinq and the Region could be taking today to minimize these deaths? Are there steps _we_ can take?

[Canard]

I hope we'll know more soon (next week?). I understand they're preparing to launch their safety campaign in the next week or two - I've reached out for more information.

[timio]

The RT team posted a notice in their Facebook page linking to regional press release.

[Canard]

Yay, finally!! Here are the details: http://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca/...18ccced754

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Reminder: No stopping on LRT tracks! New <a href="https://twitter.com/RegionWaterloo">@RegionWaterloo</a> By-law includes no stopping or parking on tracks. Details <a href="https://t.co/dAgXyzHqF3">https://t.co/dAgXyzHqF3</a> <a href="https://t.co/lz3rF3t8dy">pic.twitter.com/lz3rF3t8dy</a></p>&mdash; ION (@rideIONrt) <a href="https://twitter.com/rideIONrt/status/817409938821697536">January 6, 2017</a></blockquote>

[panamaniac]

I'm just curious, and I think I know the answer, but do you guys actually have any clue how many fatalities there are per year on LRT systems in the US?

There were 40 in 2012. More recent figures are preliminary (yes, this is from the 2016 report. No, I don't know why their information products are so out of date) but say 33 for 2013 and 39 for 2014.

Probably safe to say: Some tens of humans are killed in the US by light rail each year.

Yes, the lives saved by more efficient transport; Yes, the economic benefit of a transit system; Yes, the order of magnitude difference in fatalities compared to automotive transport (disputed, I don't have a source for this. Someone will need to find the # of passenger miles attributed to both modes for normalization); Yes the knock-on benefits to environment, urban intensification...

But. Those are still fatalities, those are still people who die, and those are going to happen to our system in our lifetimes and possibly to someone we know. And it will be used to vilify the system, the operators, the riders, and the supporters.

Are there are steps Grandlinq and the Region could be taking today to minimize these deaths? Are there steps _we_ can take?

Does the U.S. information indicate how many of those fatalities were considered to be suicides?

[Canard]

So, here's the deal: Over the next few weeks, temporary "targeted" signage is going up in places where the parking on the rapidway is "chronic", to help get the word out. This will give people one final chance to "break the habit" before ticketing and towing begins. The media over the next few days will be running pieces on this as well, so there are no surprises.

Safety campaign is coming soon, starting in the next month or so.