Highway 7 - Kitchener to Guelph

[MidTowner]

We've got reason to be optimistic about the investments being made in public transit, but more roads are known to induce demand to congest them.

[SammyOES2]

I'm not actually sure what your point is. Are you saying we shouldn't build the road or just pointing out that you think it will become congested? It may become congested or it may not. Induced demand to the point of congestion doesn't happen for every road built. But even in the worst case where it becomes congested that doesn't mean its not worth doing.

[MidTowner]

Relax. It was jus tthat Canard outlined from his own experience on the 7 how traffic congestion worsened over the years, and I thought it was a good illustration. And the same thing will happen with the expanded 7. I don't know if that means it's not worth building, so I didn't say that, but it will induce demand and become decreasingly free-flowing as time goes on.

[SammyOES2]

I wish I knew how to roll my eyes on this forum.

I was just asking you a question. I didn't know you didn't really have a point and just wanted to be grumpy.

[JCnb]

So, back to the other point about Victoria st bridge , anyone know if the Wellington/Shirley parallel route will be drive-able before the Victoria street bridge is closed next year?

That is the intent yes! I see no other way that traffic can be managed otherwise.

[SammyOES2]

Is the Victoria street bridge suppose to be closed next year?

I saw this:  https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016/11/o...erloo.html

"
Approximately 22,000 vehicles travel on Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph every day. This month, new retaining walls are being installed around the Victoria St. and Highway 85 intersection in Kitchener. Necessary construction is also starting underground, ahead of the replacement of the Victoria St. bridge and the building of new ramps that will connect Highway 85 to Highway 7.

These upgrades form part of the Highway 7 expansion project, and will create or sustain approximately 82 jobs in the region. Work is expected to be completed in fall 2017.

...

* One lane of traffic on Victoria St. will be maintained in each direction while two lanes of traffic on the express lanes of Highway 85 will be maintained in each direction at all times during construction.
"

It's not really clear to me exactly what they're talking about, but it feels like this is at least saying there will be two lanes open at all times on Victoria St. until at least Fall 2017.

At one point I thought I heard 2017 was the year for preparing for the Victoria st. bridge to be replaced and 2018 was the year the bridge would actually be replaced.  If that's the schedule I think the wellington/shirley route is suppose to be done next year.

[timio]

I currently pass through 27 traffic lights on the fastest route to my in-laws near Fergus (14 on Victoria between Fisher Hallman and Bruce). When the highway is complete, the fastest route will drop that down to 4.

Should make the experience slightly less annoying.

[MidTowner]

5 years ago, I moved to the Chicopee area in anticipation of the Fairway bridge opening. When the bridge opened in December of 2012, it was a delightful drive down Kassouth and Chilligo, and up Speedvale. Fast forward to today, depending on time of day, that route is as busy, if not busier...

This is another good example of observing induced demand in action. A bridge opens, car travel is easier, and so more people get in their cars and drive the bridge, and car travel stops being so easy.

There’s no reason to believe this won’t happen, one day, to the new 7. My point is not that we shouldn’t build this highway (I don’t know). There are good reasons for wanting to link Guelph and KW in as many ways as possible. But, unless we start doing things differently in terms of road pricing and land use policies, there’s no reason to believe any given new road will make ease congestion in anything but the short term.

[embe]

I currently pass through 27 traffic lights on the fastest route to my in-laws near Fergus (14 on Victoria between Fisher Hallman and Bruce).  When the highway is complete, the fastest route will drop that down to 4.

Should make the experience slightly less annoying.

Hopefully those 27 lights are timed properly so you can get there sooner and spend more time visiting

The expressway route to 401 would be less traffic lights, assuming the recent lane expansions are helping the flow? Or are you saying the current hwy 7 route is fastest. 

Side note: found a link that might answer the Victoria St bridge question: http://guelph.ca/wp-content/uploads/Vict...Report.pdf  (apologize if this was already posted).  from Pg 67:
"Victoria Street will be closed to through traffic between

Edna Street and Bruce Street during the construction of the
Victoria Street Bridge replacement. This will require local road
detours, which will be in place for at least one year. "

[timio]

I currently pass through 27 traffic lights on the fastest route to my in-laws near Fergus (14 on Victoria between Fisher Hallman and Bruce).  When the highway is complete, the fastest route will drop that down to 4.

Should make the experience slightly less annoying.

Hopefully those 27 lights are timed properly so you can get there sooner and spend more time visiting

The expressway route to 401 would be less traffic lights, assuming the recent lane expansions are helping the flow? Or are you saying the current hwy 7 route is fastest. 

I think I only started counting one night when I was hitting red after red on the way home. 401's out of the way. We'll likely start taking the Expressway when the bridge is closed, but Frederick -> Courtland -> Queen might be the new winner, pending on how terrible it gets. If this summer's closure at King/Victoria is any indication, it's not going to be fun.

[GtwoK]

Lots of excavation has been going on at the base of the Victoria St exits for the past week. A good amount of the hill on the Bruce has been torn into.

[KevinT]

Am I crazy to wish that the east and west side Wellington / Shirley / ramp intersections were roundabouts?

[Canard]

Not at all. I hate going through that area as it is/was, because the intersection as a 3-way stop is too big. It creates too much confusion about who goes next.

[SammyOES2]

I don't think we'll need a roundabout in the new configuration though.  The 3-way intersection goes away as riverbend veers off before that intersection and will no longer connect there.  It's just a stop sign for the southern part of the intersection because traffic there should be light with that portion ending in the cul-de-sac.  And traffic in general should decrease as ramps are removed / people take the new highway past the intersection.

[KevinT]

I was referring to putting roundabouts here and here:



If there was a way to fit them in I think they'd be good, as I don't think they'd see as much traffic as the current Victoria / Bruce / Edna intersections do.

Note:  I got this from the attachment on page 1 of this thread, is there something more up to date that has improved these intersections?