ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[coriander]

So, in the longer term, maybe 20 vehicles to get to a five-minute headway? That would be a superb service level, and would take off any pressure to run longer trains.

5 minute headways would be phenomenal and put the ION truly in the category of urban rail. I don't imagine it'll be that long before that kind of demand emerges, especially with so much transit-oriented development going on. Then again, Stage 2 will increase the need for more vehicles.

[KevinL]

I believe the cost of Stage 2 generally includes the added vehicles needed to service it.

[timc]

5 minute headways would be phenomenal and put the ION truly in the category of urban rail. I don't imagine it'll be that long before that kind of demand emerges, especially with so much transit-oriented development going on. Then again, Stage 2 will increase the need for more vehicles.

I can't imagine how a 5 minute headway would work with the nightmare that is the Northfield Drive crossing. If there is a train every five minutes, that means there is one each direction an average of every 2.5 minutes.

The original plan called for two car trains starting in 2025, which also calls for 20 vehicles.

[ac3r]

Or Hayward haha. They'd basically have to close that road down if there were trains going past with even greater frequency than they are now. By the time they clear the crossing and the arms go up, the arms would be going down again for the next train.

[Rainrider22]

I have watched the Hayward crossing a number of times. To me there is no sound reason to take as long as it does for advance warning and post train delay... They can shorten those times up and make it more efficient. There must be some rule that we are unaware of with respect to timing and duration.

[SF22]

5 minute headways would be phenomenal and put the ION truly in the category of urban rail. I don't imagine it'll be that long before that kind of demand emerges, especially with so much transit-oriented development going on. Then again, Stage 2 will increase the need for more vehicles.

I can't imagine how a 5 minute headway would work with the nightmare that is the Northfield Drive crossing. If there is a train every five minutes, that means there is one each direction an average of every 2.5 minutes.

The original plan called for two car trains starting in 2025, which also calls for 20 vehicles.

The timing for Northfield could be refined by about a minute, if that, to get both trains to pass through the intersection at the same time. There's always one train that leaves Conestoga Mall, makes the bend to Northfield, and then the train heading to the mall arrives at the intersection about 45 seconds later. Once in a blue moon, they pass through at the same time. This would mean you are only 'stopping' the intersection once for every two trains, and only once every 10 minutes if sticking with 10-minute headways, or once every 5 minutes if we upgrade to 5-minute headways.

OR we could take a leaf from the Stage 2 plan and just elevate the train starting at Kraus, make the corner in the sky, and then drop down again somewhere along King St. That won't be expensive, right?

[ijmorlan]

I have watched the Hayward crossing a number of times.  To me there is no sound reason to take as long as it does for advance warning and post train delay...  They can shorten those times up and make it more efficient.  There must be some rule that we are unaware of with respect to  timing and duration.

There are multiple locations where the signals clearly stop other traffic much longer than needed. It should be possible to rejig it to support 5 minute frequency. Imagine if the LRT line was another road. One vehicle each direction every 5 minutes wouldn’t even count as traffic.

[SF22]

I have watched the Hayward crossing a number of times.  To me there is no sound reason to take as long as it does for advance warning and post train delay...  They can shorten those times up and make it more efficient.  There must be some rule that we are unaware of with respect to  timing and duration.

I was under the impression that the intersections that take a long time are the ones that are paired with a freight line. Hayward has the train yard right there. Same thing with why the Northfield Station lights and the Erb/Caroline/Bridgeport corner has such a big lead. I thought I heard that the requirements for freight train safety were basically imposed upon the ION since they run the same tracking.

[danbrotherston]

I have watched the Hayward crossing a number of times.  To me there is no sound reason to take as long as it does for advance warning and post train delay...  They can shorten those times up and make it more efficient.  There must be some rule that we are unaware of with respect to  timing and duration.

I was under the impression that the intersections that take a long time are the ones that are paired with a freight line. Hayward has the train yard right there. Same thing with why the Northfield Station lights and the Erb/Caroline/Bridgeport corner has such a big lead. I thought I heard that the requirements for freight train safety were basically imposed upon the ION since they run the same tracking.

The Hayward portion of the line does not carry freight at any time. The only section shared with freight is from uptown to Northfield.

The safety restrictions come from two sources...

1. The railway regulations which are fairly specific and geared to heavy freight trains rather than light LRT trains, but since the LRT even when not mixed with freight, must use the same railway crossing equipment, must match those regulations, AFAIK.

2. The excessive myopic and broken culture of "safety without context" present in the transit org, that is only more clear when compared with the literally surrounding roads. Like the LRT is restricted to a speed below that of the cars surrounding it....because...safety?!

[KevinL]

I believe they mean the crossing at Hayward, which does have a single set of lights and bars for both Ion and the freight line (as does Northfield, and Erb/Caroline, and every crossing between those).

[danbrotherston]

I believe they mean the crossing at Hayward, which does have a single set of lights and bars for both Ion and the freight line (as does Northfield, and Erb/Caroline, and every crossing between those).

Fair enough...I was only thinking of the tracks.

[SF22]

I believe they mean the crossing at Hayward, which does have a single set of lights and bars for both Ion and the freight line (as does Northfield, and Erb/Caroline, and every crossing between those).

Fair enough...I was only thinking of the tracks.

Yes, that is what I meant! Thankfully, I think we are avoiding that same issue in Stage 2 in Cambridge - the only two spots where the tracks will overlay existing freight tracks is at Hespeler/Eagle and Hespeler/Avenue, but the ION will kind of peel off and join Hespeler at lights in front of the Mastermind Toys building, so I think that will avoid the train warning lights that are just north of that intersection coming on every few minutes. The freight crossing near Avenue Rd goes under the bridge (separated grade crossing), so that one should be fine too.

[neonjoe]

Does anyone think that the region will ever try to improve the ion route? Such as adding grade separations, gating intersections or or rerouting slow portions? Or will the contract with Keolis always limit what they can do.

[SF22]

Does anyone think that the region will ever try to improve the ion route? Such as adding grade separations, gating intersections or or rerouting slow portions? Or will the contract with Keolis always limit what they can do.

I've thought about this before, particularly for things like filling in station gaps (McCormick, for example, or Beverly/Dundas for Stage 2). It feels like it would be really hard to manage, just because of the absolute disruption it would cause to rip out sections of the track. You'd have to run shuttle buses for months to get around construction areas, and I think you'd have a hard time selling people on it. That said, Metrolinx is currently adding new stations along the Kitchener GO line within Toronto with seemingly little disruption, so maybe it's plausible?

[danbrotherston]

I don't think the contract is the obstacle...where there is a will there is a way.

I think the obstacle is will.