Waterloo Region Connected
Winter Walking and Cycling - Printable Version

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RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - robdrimmie - 02-01-2019

I would be wary of criticizing arguments as ridiculous if I were then going to immediately submit an anecdote and call it data.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - taylortbb - 02-01-2019

(02-01-2019, 04:48 PM)creative Wrote: What a rediculous argument. It takes me less than 5 minutes on average to clear my sidewalk. 3.5 percent increase on my taxes would amount to $135 increase in my taxes.

If 3.5% of your city tax bill is $135 then the assessed value of your house is about $1.1M, and the market value is almost certainly higher. Either your math is wrong, or you're a pretty extreme outlier.

Also, it takes 5 minutes, how many times per year? Kitchener sees snowfall on average 62 days/year. So, 5 minutes each day it snows is a bit over 5 hours.

If the cost is $135, that's about $26/hour. If you can afford a $1.1M house, why are you working for $26/hour?

If the cost is a more typical $40, then the homeowner is working for under $8/hour, or far less than minimum wage.

All this assuming it only does take 5 minutes, which many people would dispute.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - ijmorlan - 02-01-2019

(02-01-2019, 02:47 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Queen St., a full week after the storm, is 100% impassable to anyone who's not fully able, and barely passable to someone with a stroller.  I know because I walked there this morning.

Looks like an AODA violation to me. Who wants to sue the City? Does one need to have limited mobility in order to have standing, or can anybody sue?


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - ijmorlan - 02-01-2019

(02-01-2019, 05:32 PM)taylortbb Wrote:
(02-01-2019, 04:48 PM)creative Wrote: What a rediculous argument. It takes me less than 5 minutes on average to clear my sidewalk. 3.5 percent increase on my taxes would amount to $135 increase in my taxes.

If 3.5% of your city tax bill is $135 then the assessed value of your house is about $1.1M, and the market value is almost certainly higher. Either your math is wrong, or you're a pretty extreme outlier.

[…]

I like your comments about the value of time. Very on point!

Also, the idea that individual shovelling is cheaper doesn’t pass the laugh test. How could it be less work for each person to go out and shovel their own walk than for one person to drive all over the neighbourhood operating a plow? There is a reason why this isn’t even a discussion when it comes to the road itself.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - jamincan - 02-01-2019

His argument is also predicated on the idea that somehow the current system is working. It plainly isn't. Getting passable sidewalks two days later is a far cry from getting passable sidewalks in several weeks when we get a warm spell and some of the snow melts. The City is failing to fulfill its legally mandated responsibility of having clear sidewalk. We know that Davey's solution to increase enforcement is not a solution - it's just kicking the can further down the road. It's a decision that saves money now, but at the expense of the most vulnerable people in our community who rely on clear sidewalks. It's a selfish populist position that favors the majority of residents who do not have restricted mobility.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - chutten - 02-01-2019

I fail to see how sidewalks are sufficiently different from streets to warrant different treatment. Where do I apply to be exempt from the property tax levy for clearing my half of the carriageway in front of my house?


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 02-01-2019

(02-01-2019, 04:48 PM)creative Wrote: What a rediculous argument. It takes me less than 5 minutes on average to clear my sidewalk. 3.5 percent increase on my taxes would amount to $135 increase in my taxes.

It isn't ridiculous, clearing sidewalks by plow is incredibly efficient.  That's clear from the simple economics of it, a plow takes 3-5 seconds to clear the average sidewalk.

You're only one of many homeowners, and if you're only spending 5 minutes on your sidewalk, its either a tiny below average sidewalk, or you're doing a piss poor job.

The average homeowner, over a year, will more than one hour or clearing the sidewalk, meaning even at minimum wage, they're going to spend more than the 20-30 dollars it would cost.  That's not even counting the properties which have substantial sidewalks that could take property owners 10-15 minutes to clear per storm.

When I had my property, I cleared promptly and quickly, so it took me less time than it would to scrape the ice off later, I had a corner lot with substantial sidewalk, and I spent at least 15 minutes per time clearing and easily had to do that 15-20 times a year.

By the way, even if we take your time to clear as average, which it isn't, we still end up with homeowners spending 1.5-2.2 million dollars of their own labor on snow clearing, not even including the amount spent on commercial properties.

There is absolutely zero question here, if you include actual labor costs, a plow is OBVIOUSLY cheaper.  If you disagree, I assume you're also demanding the far cheaper solution of shoveling roads too right?

And to top it off, your math is wrong. I'm assuming you don't live in a million dollar house, so you don't spend 3857 on city taxes alone, you're including the regional tax, the city tax is only 1/3 of your bill, and if you I don't care, you can afford an extra 135 a year.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 02-01-2019

Boy, I didn't even read this page, until after creative's comment.

Ugh, this is pure insanity. Anyone want to meet with Davey this weekend and try to walk...literally anywhere outside of a residential neighbourhood.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 02-01-2019

(02-01-2019, 05:56 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(02-01-2019, 02:47 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Queen St., a full week after the storm, is 100% impassable to anyone who's not fully able, and barely passable to someone with a stroller.  I know because I walked there this morning.

Looks like an AODA violation to me. Who wants to sue the City? Does one need to have limited mobility in order to have standing, or can anybody sue?

Sue, scream, hit, punch.....I cannot imagine how powerless it must feel for someone disabled, who doesn't have the means to do something else right now.

I do have the means, and winter is clearly the breaking point, I don't have to and won't deal with this bullshit again. People like Davey can fuck right off with bullshit.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - Canard - 02-01-2019

(02-01-2019, 03:08 PM)timc Wrote: I'm constantly confused by the salt argument when it comes to city sidewalk clearing. In my mind, we would use less salt because sidewalks don't need to be cleared down to bare concrete. Or do we think that government just has no idea how to use salt?

The bit that confuses me is they're all "DONT EVER USE SALT!!!!!!!!!! SALT KILLS UNBORN BABIES AND KITTENS!!!!!!!!!111" and then you see this:

   

   

...aaaaand I'm pretty sure that snow didn't come down brown out of the sky:

   


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 02-01-2019

At least the brown is more of an indication of the particulate pollution caused by cars...I suspect what you're looking at there is particle-ized tires and brake pads, and a bit of soot from diesels. If we're lucky, maybe some sand from sanding roads instead of salting.

But yes, the city should be more careful with the salt it uses, but at least it has control over the salt it uses. The only thing it can do about homeowners is beg them not to pour tons of salt on sidewalks, which some people do...of course, that begging also leads other people to use not enough salt meaning we end up with dangerous sidewalks as well.

The current system is pessimal in almost every way.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - clasher - 02-01-2019

The city plows so many sidewalks piecemeal already, like in Victoria park, but the plows drive on the street instead of just plowing some of the sidewalks they pass. David street is a bit of a mess, the drewlo building looks like it hasn't been cleared in a few days, and that empty lot that Vive owns never gets shovelled. Manulife doesn't do the sidewalk on Francis street from what my partner said.


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - tomh009 - 02-01-2019

(02-01-2019, 06:48 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: At least the brown is more of an indication of the particulate pollution caused by cars...I suspect what you're looking at there is particle-ized tires and brake pads, and a bit of soot from diesels.  If we're lucky, maybe some sand from sanding roads instead of salting.

And plain old "dirt" … the dust particles that accumulate on the roads in the summer, too, and make our cars look dusty (and which the rains then wash away). Although admittedly I have done zero research into the origins of said "dirt"!


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - Bob_McBob - 02-01-2019

Not local but relevant to the thread:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4916231/york-university-snow-covered-sidewalk-accessibility-video/


RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - tomh009 - 02-01-2019

(02-01-2019, 06:48 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: The current system is pessimal in almost every way.

I had to look that up! But, yes, I do agree with you.