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+--- Thread: Winter Walking and Cycling (/showthread.php?tid=654)
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - panamaniac - 06-26-2018
(06-26-2018, 06:02 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Maybe if we can get enough complaints filed next winter they will realize that there is a real problem.
Complaints have been steady or declining over the last few years, no? That might reflect the vagaries of winter weather as much as anything else, I suppose.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - Pheidippides - 06-26-2018
Change would come much faster if, upon taking office, all councillors were required to surrender their cars and walk all winter (and ride their bikes in sharrow lanes the rest of the year).
I cringed reading Record’s descriptiong about the cancelling of, “an ambitious plan”. The plan that was cancelled wasn’t ambitious; an ambitious plan would have been the city clearing all sidewalks within 4 hours of a snowfall.
I think the $26 is still probably a very good estimate; but as Dan states, now we’ll never know exactly how good or bad it was.
I don’t think the general public realizes how good many municipalites have become at managing their finances.
I was at a conference earlier this year where the City of Regina was presenting on their cost assumption model. Basically, they figured out all of the component (input) costs that go in to each city activity or service they do or provide.
For example, red rock replacement in their garden beds was costing $15,145/ha (of which $83 was labour, $12,033 was materials and equipment, and $3,026 was support costs (HR, legal, other, etc.)) whereas mulch replacement was only $1,832/ha (of which $83 was labour, $1,383 was materials and equipment, and $3,66 was support costs (HR, legal, other, etc.)). So it is easy to tell where you can quickly save money, and you can know what it is going to cost to add a class A park space vs. a class D park space very quickly.
Anyway, they did this for estimating snow removal costs on their city paths and calculated that it cost $0.07/m (for a 3m path) of which $0.03 was labour, $0.022 was materials and equipment, and $0.013 was support (HR, legal, other, etc.).
Now clearing trails and sidewalks will be slightly different as most sidewalks are <3m, and it quicker to do paths because of fewer turns and wider geometry, and wider means greater speed, and faster speed means fewer hours of labour and lower cost, but I think it is a suitable proxy.
Now Kitchener has about 1,200km (1,200,000m) of sidewalk, has 95,495 private dwellings, and gets about 30 days of snow accumulation (>=0.02cm) per winter.
1,200,000m x $0.07/m = $84,000 per snowfall
$84,000 per snowfall x 30 snowfalls = $2,520,000 per season
$2,520,000 per season / 95,495 private dwellings = $26.39 per season per private dwelling
If you only plow snowfalls of >5cm (we get an average of 12 of those per season) then total cost drops to $1,008,000 or $10.56 per season per private dwelling.
And before you say labour would cost more in Kitchener, consider that for full-year full-time workers Regina actually has a higher median income ($60,421 vs. $51,710) so labour costs are probably slightly higher there than here.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - tomh009 - 06-26-2018
(06-26-2018, 07:23 PM)panamaniac Wrote:(06-26-2018, 06:02 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Maybe if we can get enough complaints filed next winter they will realize that there is a real problem.
Complaints have been steady or declining over the last few years, no? That might reflect the vagaries of winter weather as much as anything else, I suppose.
There are a few properties near our condo that never clear their sidewalks. I grumbled last winter but did not file any complaints. Will try to do better next year.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 06-26-2018
(06-26-2018, 04:38 PM)jamincan Wrote:(06-26-2018, 03:07 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I don't think anyone actually suggested a tighter implementation, there were questions to staff on exactly what the bylaw required, and staff clarified that yes, they only enforce the bylaw after 24 hours of no snow. Staff mentioned that there were changes to the bylaw in previous years (I believe the change was that they would take a complaint before the 24 hours, but not investigate it), but that council declined to adopt further changes.
I found the moment - 5:19:30 in the video of the meeting. It sounds like staff is going to have to research the past decision council made and then report on the viability of Marsh's suggestion. I'm not too well-versed on council procedure, but I think I got it right? Hopefully a change can be made to close the loop hole that allows the clock to reset repeatedly.
You're right, she did ask for it...but there's no binding requirement.
I suspect the reason for the bylaw being phrased the way it is, is so that it is unambiguous. If snow continues, the property owner can claim the sidewalk was cleared, and that only new snow has fallen since. How can the city prove the property owner guilty?
We can brainstorm ideas, but I think the very requirement for brainstorming shows why enforcement is going to be completely broken here.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 06-26-2018
For complaints I have always filed complaints about every single property I have to walk over that has uncleared sidewalks.
I will continue to do so this winter, but I will address all of my complaints to those councilors who voted against this.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - tomh009 - 06-26-2018
(06-26-2018, 08:52 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: For complaints I have always filed complaints about every single property I have to walk over that has uncleared sidewalks.
I will continue to do so this winter, but I will address all of my complaints to those councilors who voted against this.
Maybe an email reflector for handy councilor complaints?
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - ijmorlan - 06-26-2018
(06-26-2018, 07:21 PM)Canard Wrote: I really hope that is not what happens. I shovel my driveway and the sidewalk as much as I can but I hate the thought of people running around calling stuff in "to make a point" and then I get caught on the one day I didn't make it out there 3 seconds after the snow stopped falling.
I think you mean 3 seconds after 24 hours after the snow stopped falling!
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - ijmorlan - 06-26-2018
(06-26-2018, 07:23 PM)panamaniac Wrote:(06-26-2018, 06:02 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Maybe if we can get enough complaints filed next winter they will realize that there is a real problem.
Complaints have been steady or declining over the last few years, no? That might reflect the vagaries of winter weather as much as anything else, I suppose.
And people realizing that there is not much point in complaining.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 06-26-2018
(06-26-2018, 10:55 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:(06-26-2018, 07:23 PM)panamaniac Wrote: Complaints have been steady or declining over the last few years, no? That might reflect the vagaries of winter weather as much as anything else, I suppose.
And people realizing that there is not much point in complaining.
This and so much this, multiple winters I called in the same houses over and over and over and over again, until the corporate contact centre knew me by name. It made it more convenient.
Those sidewalks were never or almost never cleared of snow, no matter how many times I called.
So if I'm to spend time complaining, I'm going to do it more publicly.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - tomh009 - 06-27-2018
(06-26-2018, 11:04 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Those sidewalks were never or almost never cleared of snow, no matter how many times I called.
The situation is basically identical in Kitchener and Waterloo?
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 06-27-2018
(06-27-2018, 01:56 AM)tomh009 Wrote:(06-26-2018, 11:04 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Those sidewalks were never or almost never cleared of snow, no matter how many times I called.
The situation is basically identical in Kitchener and Waterloo?
More or less, in Kitchener, you get to talk to a real person, but the contact centre seems intentionally difficult about receiving complaints: they want an exact address, no matter where the problem is...
Waterloo on the other hand, has an answering machine, and no indication if anyone ever checks it. I think I got a real person once the entire winter.
Otherwise, the effect is the same.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - panamaniac - 06-27-2018
(06-26-2018, 08:47 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:(06-26-2018, 04:38 PM)jamincan Wrote: I found the moment - 5:19:30 in the video of the meeting. It sounds like staff is going to have to research the past decision council made and then report on the viability of Marsh's suggestion. I'm not too well-versed on council procedure, but I think I got it right? Hopefully a change can be made to close the loop hole that allows the clock to reset repeatedly.
You're right, she did ask for it...but there's no binding requirement.
I suspect the reason for the bylaw being phrased the way it is, is so that it is unambiguous. If snow continues, the property owner can claim the sidewalk was cleared, and that only new snow has fallen since. How can the city prove the property owner guilty?
We can brainstorm ideas, but I think the very requirement for brainstorming shows why enforcement is going to be completely broken here.
(06-26-2018, 08:52 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: For complaints I have always filed complaints about every single property I have to walk over that has uncleared sidewalks.
I will continue to do so this winter, but I will address all of my complaints to those councilors who voted against this.
(06-27-2018, 07:49 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:(06-27-2018, 01:56 AM)tomh009 Wrote: The situation is basically identical in Kitchener and Waterloo?
More or less, in Kitchener, you get to talk to a real person, but the contact centre seems intentionally difficult about receiving complaints: they want an exact address, no matter where the problem is...
Waterloo on the other hand, has an answering machine, and no indication if anyone ever checks it. I think I got a real person once the entire winter.
Otherwise, the effect is the same.
This is the case for all complaints - I remember it was difficult to complain about an untended vacant lot near where I used to live. After a bit of back and forth, we settled on a range of address numbers based on the properties on either side of the lot in question. End result was good, however, in that the owner cleaned up the lot within a matter of days of the complaint, on more than one occasion.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 06-27-2018
(06-27-2018, 09:28 AM)panamaniac Wrote:(06-26-2018, 08:47 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: You're right, she did ask for it...but there's no binding requirement.
I suspect the reason for the bylaw being phrased the way it is, is so that it is unambiguous. If snow continues, the property owner can claim the sidewalk was cleared, and that only new snow has fallen since. How can the city prove the property owner guilty?
We can brainstorm ideas, but I think the very requirement for brainstorming shows why enforcement is going to be completely broken here.
(06-26-2018, 08:52 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: For complaints I have always filed complaints about every single property I have to walk over that has uncleared sidewalks.
I will continue to do so this winter, but I will address all of my complaints to those councilors who voted against this.
(06-27-2018, 07:49 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: More or less, in Kitchener, you get to talk to a real person, but the contact centre seems intentionally difficult about receiving complaints: they want an exact address, no matter where the problem is...
Waterloo on the other hand, has an answering machine, and no indication if anyone ever checks it. I think I got a real person once the entire winter.
Otherwise, the effect is the same.
This is the case for all complaints - I remember it was difficult to complain about an untended vacant lot near where I used to live. After a bit of back and forth, we settled on a range of address numbers based on the properties on either side of the lot in question. End result was good, however, in that the owner cleaned up the lot within a matter of days of the complaint, on more than one occasion.
That's good. I've not had good experiences that way. The most notable one is a tree that had been left to overgrow the sidewalk on Victoria St., forcing everyone onto the road. But it was more or less in between the property lines, I eventually settled on giving them one address. A week later it was still a problem, so I called, and eventually got transferred to bylaw. They said the case had been assigned, but the singular property inspector was on vacation for two weeks, with no replacement. Three weeks later, I called again, property inspector told me she had inspected, and served a warning, and planned to go back. Two weeks after that, city crews trimmed the tree back. Basically a month and a half of the sidewalk being blocked.
The next year, when the same tree, overgrew the sidewalk again, I brought my own tools and cut the damn thing back again.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - tomh009 - 06-27-2018
How about a simple web site where we can record bylaw violations, and see totals by date or addressh? We could then publicize that to councilors (and maybe even get the Record or CBC to pick up on it)?
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 06-27-2018
(06-27-2018, 10:26 AM)tomh009 Wrote: How about a simple web site where we can record bylaw violations, and see totals by date or addressh? We could then publicize that to councilors (and maybe even get the Record or CBC to pick up on it)?
I have been toying with the idea of throwing together a quick mobile app to do this. Ping St. is terrible, and it would be pretty simple to create something that works much better.
The real problem is that reporting problems on that app wouldn't go to bylaw, it would only go to statistics.