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+--- Thread: Winter Walking and Cycling (/showthread.php?tid=654)
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - Pheidippides - 01-31-2018
Kitchener's new five year (2018-2022) accessibility plan does not make mention of clearing of snow from sidewalks.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - Canard - 02-01-2018
What will it take for this to become a thing?
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - embe - 02-01-2018
(01-31-2018, 09:07 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: ... I also hear people in KW complain about their streets not being plowed for days, they're simply wrong. Residential streets are plowed, they just aren't black because they have less traffic...
As of today I'm pretty sure my street has not been plowed since the last significant snowfall. Not complaining, just an observation.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 02-01-2018
(02-01-2018, 07:47 PM)embe Wrote:(01-31-2018, 09:07 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: ... I also hear people in KW complain about their streets not being plowed for days, they're simply wrong. Residential streets are plowed, they just aren't black because they have less traffic...
As of today I'm pretty sure my street has not been plowed since the last significant snowfall. Not complaining, just an observation.
It would be very surprising if it was not. So far as I know, they have fully plowed all streets, if yours was not, it *could* have been missed.
However, it's worth noting, that side streets could easily be plowed without it being apparent that they have. If there isn't a lot of snow, there may not be a substantial bottom of driveway wall, and moreover, since no salting/sanding is done, the road will still appear white. Many times I will only know my road has been plowed if I go look at the edges carefully.
My street which is a Priority 3 was plowed roughly a day after the snowfall.
In any case, most individual sidewalks are clear, but once again, every single road I walked on had at least one uncleared sidewalk.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - Canard - 02-01-2018
(02-01-2018, 07:47 PM)embe Wrote:(01-31-2018, 09:07 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: ... I also hear people in KW complain about their streets not being plowed for days, they're simply wrong. Residential streets are plowed, they just aren't black because they have less traffic...
As of today I'm pretty sure my street has not been plowed since the last significant snowfall. Not complaining, just an observation.
This section of Mansion is awful. I know, because it's on my primary bike route to get to the Spur Line trail! It is never, ever ploughed or cleared. It has about a 5cm thick layer of hard packed snow on it constantly.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - Coke6pk - 02-05-2018
So a logistic's question, if a snow plow is heading down the sidewalk and you are walking towards it, are you expected to step into a snowbank to let it pass? (This would fly in the face of a "mobility issue" argument).
Just to be clear, as a minimal user of pedestrian infrastructure, I am still strongly in support of the city taking over... but thought of this issue when I was stuck behind a snow plow while driving yesterday.
Coke
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - robdrimmie - 02-05-2018
The times I've been walking on city property or that maintained by contractors, the operators of the vehicles have stopped and moved aside for me (into a driveway, for example). It's a different and more navigable scenario at pedestrian speeds than it is at automobile speeds.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 02-05-2018
(02-05-2018, 01:53 PM)robdrimmie Wrote: The times I've been walking on city property or that maintained by contractors, the operators of the vehicles have stopped and moved aside for me (into a driveway, for example). It's a different and more navigable scenario at pedestrian speeds than it is at automobile speeds.
And of course, pedestrians, even less abled ones, can do the same thing for any plowed access.
Also, I'm sure this is a bigger problem in dense areas (where we are already more likely to be using snow removal equipment on sidewalks--only, a different machine for every block), but in the residential area I grew up in, for 18 years, I can count on one hand the number of times I encountered a sidewalk plow, while walking.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - Coke6pk - 02-05-2018
OK... wasn't sure since I've never lived in a community that provided the service.
I was just picturing a snow plow clearing both lanes of a roadway at once (in one direction) and seeing how problematic that would be... then putting that in perspective of a sidewalk. Thanks for the responses.
Coke
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - plam - 02-05-2018
(02-05-2018, 12:58 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: So a logistic's question, if a snow plow is heading down the sidewalk and you are walking towards it, are you expected to step into a snowbank to let it pass? (This would fly in the face of a "mobility issue" argument).
Just to be clear, as a minimal user of pedestrian infrastructure, I am still strongly in support of the city taking over... but thought of this issue when I was stuck behind a snow plow while driving yesterday.
In Montreal the sidewalk plows can be sort of scary. It's a legit question. But the sidewalk plow drivers are also Montreal drivers.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 02-05-2018
(02-05-2018, 02:28 PM)plam Wrote:(02-05-2018, 12:58 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: So a logistic's question, if a snow plow is heading down the sidewalk and you are walking towards it, are you expected to step into a snowbank to let it pass? (This would fly in the face of a "mobility issue" argument).
Just to be clear, as a minimal user of pedestrian infrastructure, I am still strongly in support of the city taking over... but thought of this issue when I was stuck behind a snow plow while driving yesterday.
In Montreal the sidewalk plows can be sort of scary. It's a legit question. But the sidewalk plow drivers are also Montreal drivers.
Oh, I agree it's scary and intimidating, but that is only the perception, I've never experienced an actual problem, and I don't think injuries are common at all.
I have literally had more bad experiences with cars driving on sidewalks.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - plam - 02-05-2018
OK, I couldn't find actual incidents where sidewalk snowplow drivers hit people walking on the sidewalk. But yes, I have gotten out of the way of several of them, onto the snowbank or lawn.
I think that having city clearing is still a step forward, but I will note that Montrealers have complained about ice, and there has been a disagreement between the borough of Anjou and the central city about how aggressively to clear snow from sidewalks. e.g.
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/city-plans-to-buy-new-ice-crushers-to-fight-slippery-sidewalks-1.3782684
They are also studying heated sidewalks in the core.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-moves-forward-on-heated-sidewalk-project-1.3956703
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - danbrotherston - 02-05-2018
(02-05-2018, 03:05 PM)plam Wrote: OK, I couldn't find actual incidents where sidewalk snowplow drivers hit people walking on the sidewalk. But yes, I have gotten out of the way of several of them, onto the snowbank or lawn.
I think that having city clearing is still a step forward, but I will note that Montrealers have complained about ice, and there has been a disagreement between the borough of Anjou and the central city about how aggressively to clear snow from sidewalks. e.g.
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/city-plans-to-buy-new-ice-crushers-to-fight-slippery-sidewalks-1.3782684
They are also studying heated sidewalks in the core.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-moves-forward-on-heated-sidewalk-project-1.3956703
Certainly municipal clearing will not eliminate complaints or problems, after all, plenty of people complain about road plowing.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - plam - 02-05-2018
(02-05-2018, 03:34 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Certainly municipal clearing will not eliminate complaints or problems, after all, plenty of people complain about road plowing.
And I should be extra clear about how I think that municipal clearing is a step forward. It's just not a panacea.
RE: Winter Walking and Cycling - tomh009 - 02-05-2018
(02-05-2018, 05:13 PM)plam Wrote:(02-05-2018, 03:34 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Certainly municipal clearing will not eliminate complaints or problems, after all, plenty of people complain about road plowing.
And I should be extra clear about how I think that municipal clearing is a step forward. It's just not a panacea.
For most real-world problems, there is no silver bullet. We can improve situations and mitigate problems, but a 100% solution with no downsides is exceedingly rare.