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Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - Printable Version

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Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - verter - 04-16-2015

Hi everybody,

I consider moving to Waterloo with my family soon. Currently we live in Montreal area and don't like some aspects of living there, so I'd appreciate opinion of Waterloo/Kitchener residents on some questions below. There are 2 small kids in my family (2-5 years old) I and I really look for more conform for them and my wife.

1. Would you move yourself from Montreal to Waterloo? Is it worth it at all from both social and financial perspectives?

2. In our city people mostly seat at their homes, the streets look more like during and post-apocalyptic age. It's even hard to meet a bird here Confused People are not very friendly and hard to contact with. Neighbors don't know each other. Kids don't play outside. I know it's almost everywhere like this nowadays but still it varies. What about Waterloo?

3. We don't speak French are are not native English speakers, but still we look and behave as normal educated people. Unfortunately local people (most French speaking) turn away from us and what's worse, when our kids play on the playground and parents of other kids hear a different language they literally pull their kids from ours and go away. Some people pretend they don't see you when you start asking something in English. Can we expect something like that in Waterloo too?

4. Are there enough free winter, summer and all season activities in Waterloo for kids 2-5 years old so that they don't feel boring even during non-weekend day?

5. What can you say about local daycare and kindergarten services?

Also feel free to write whatever you feel a potential Waterloo newcomer should now upfront, especially things that can affect family life.

Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Alex


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - Drake - 04-16-2015

I have not lived in Montreal, but I am new to Waterloo and have lived here for 3 years. I have a 2 year old.

I found this city to be very inviting, good to get around and lots of activities for all ages. There are plenty of options for day care with wide range of costs associated with it.

It may be helpful to let us know what your background/language is. If you don't feel comfortable that is alright, I find it pretty diverse here and there are several cultures and languages spoken in town and I have not observed any obvious discrimination, but maybe I am living in a dream world?

Montreal is a place unlike any other I have traveled to, so if you will forgive me, that isn't an example of to measure all others in Canada by in my opinion.

French is a real minority language here. Coming from Northern Ontario where I found French to be quite common, I feel like it exists only in principle here.

Finally, I have found the libraries offer numerous free activities for kids in your age range. Have a look at the Kitchener , Waterloo or Cambridge Public Libraries for more details.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - plam - 04-16-2015

(04-16-2015, 01:21 PM)verter Wrote: Hi everybody,

I consider moving to Waterloo with my family soon. Currently we live in Montreal area and don't like some aspects of living there, so I'd appreciate opinion of Waterloo/Kitchener residents on some questions below. There are 2 small kids in my family (2-5 years old) I and I really look for more conform for them and my wife.

1. Would you move yourself from Montreal to Waterloo? Is it worth it at all from both social and financial perspectives?

2. In our city people mostly seat at their homes, the streets look more like during and post-apocalyptic age. It's even hard to meet a bird here  Confused People are not very friendly and hard to contact with. Neighbors don't know each other. Kids don't play outside. I know it's almost everywhere like this nowadays but still it varies. What about Waterloo?

3. We don't speak French are are not native English speakers, but still we look and behave as normal educated people. Unfortunately local people (most French speaking) turn away from us and what's worse, when our kids play on the playground and parents of other kids hear a different language they literally pull their kids from ours and go away. Some people pretend they don't see you when you start asking something in English. Can we expect something like that in Waterloo too?

4. Are there enough free winter, summer and all season activities in Waterloo for kids 2-5 years old so that they don't feel boring even during non-weekend day?

5. What can you say about local daycare and kindergarten services?

Also feel free to write whatever you feel a potential Waterloo newcomer should now upfront, especially things that can affect family life.

I grew up in Montreal and lived there from ages 0-20 until I moved away for graduate school. As a professor you don't really get to choose where to live, so here I am in Waterloo.

I don't have children but people say this is a good place to raise kids. I do have to say that if you have the $7/day daycare in Montreal that is going to be a lot cheaper than anything you'll find here. For the other things, cost of living is lower here than in Montreal (housing, etc). Your kids would eventually have to go to school in French in Montreal as well.

I'd say that it depends a lot on the kinds of people you get to know. I think it can be hard to meet people on the playground, but I think that otherwise I wouldn't expect there to be that much of a difference between different cities. There is, but there is also a lot more of the difference that is explained by who you know and how you get along with them.

I will say that my parents always identified more with the English community even though they are more francophone. (They grew up in Vietnam). Having said that, I feel that I'm well accepted in various sub-communities in Montreal. For instance I still belong to a judo club in Quebec and am active in the judo refereeing community.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - verter - 04-17-2015

Thank you both for your opinions.

I live in one of Montreal's sububrs. In Montreal itself it's definitely more dense and crowdy outside, but still most of people that you can meet in parks and playgrounds are immigrants and elderies and it depends alot from the place. And it's also a bit more anglophone as well. My city mostly consists of private houses and 2-3 storey houses with condos, mostly just like Waterloo as it looks to me now, and this similarity is the root of my concerns.

As for the language issue I've mention before, I'm pretty sure the language itself is not what causes people to react this way, instead it looks to me as it's the fact of the people speaking in a different language, as most of them don't even know which language we speak, name of which I din't mention intentionally so that nobody thinks I'm pointing to race, policical or any other selectional discrimination. I had some discussions with different people here on this matter, those who mostly stay at home all the day are very surprised that this happens, immigrants who prefer outside activities are mostly aware of the issue, some locals exlained this as low education and social skills in some layers of population, one told me that the volume and vibration of certain languages makes him think that people yell at him even if they speak aside to each other (wierd). I don't know, I just expressed the fact that affects my family in a certain place.

Can you please also tell something about the quality of daycare, school education and medicine? Just from your experience.

Drake, thank you for the library links, this might be useful.

Regards,
Alex


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - plam - 04-17-2015

(04-17-2015, 08:36 AM)verter Wrote: Thank you both for your opinions.

I live in one of Montreal's sububrs. In Montreal itself it's definitely more dense and crowdy outside, but still most of people that you can meet in parks and playgrounds are immigrants and elderies and it depends alot from the place. And it's also a bit more anglophone as well. My city mostly consists of private houses and 2-3 storey houses with condos, mostly just like Waterloo as it looks to me now, and this similarity is the root of my concerns.

As for the language issue I've mention before, I'm pretty sure the language itself is not what causes people to react this way, instead it looks to me as it's the fact of the people speaking in a different language, as most of them don't even know which language we speak, name of which I din't mention intentionally so that nobody thinks I'm pointing to race, policical or any other selectional discrimination. I had some discussions with different people here on this matter, those who mostly stay at home all the day are very surprised that this happens, immigrants who prefer outside activities are mostly aware of the issue,  some locals exlained this as low education and social skills in some layers of population, one told me that the volume and vibration of certain languages makes him think that people yell at him even if they speak aside to each other (wierd). I don't know, I just expressed the fact that affects my family in a certain place.

Can you please also tell something about the quality of daycare, school education and medicine? Just from your experience.

Nope. I have no experience with those topics.

I suspect that you have similar amounts of variance between different neighbourhoods in Montreal as you do between Montreal and Waterloo. Maybe a bit more but I suspect it's not going to be that huge. People are pretty similar in different places.

Montreal is known for having fewer parks than other cities, so that's a thing. There are also not the 3-story triplexes in Waterloo (or anywhere besides Montreal for that matter).


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - panamaniac - 04-17-2015

It's common enough to hear people in K-W speaking foreign languages in public (eg. Chinese, Arabic, Portuguese, and Eastern European languages) that I'd be surprised if anyone here would give it a second thought. Certainly growing up with immigrant neighbours is a common enough experience. I don't know that racism/ethnic prejudice is any more or less of an issue here than elsewhere in Canada, but it has always been my impression that folks get along pretty well. Kitchener, in particular, has always had a pretty good reputation as a friendly and welcoming place.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - BuildingScout - 04-17-2015

It is difficult to compare KW and Montreal. Their strengths and weaknesses are so dissimilar. I think KW is a tad more friendly than Montreal, good place to raise a family, cheaper than Montreal and with historically good job prospects. You do give up the massive amount of cultural activities associated with a large city like Montreal, though KW has come of age lately when it comes to events and art festivals throughout the Spring, Summer and Fall.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - white_brian - 04-18-2015

I personally can't address any ethnic concerns, but having lived in both Kitchener and Waterloo for 30 years I can say that now there is a marked cultural mix. When we moved here from Guelph the population was "white" Canadian, German and Portuguese. Obviously there were lots of people from other ethnic backgrounds but the aforementioned were the primary groups. Since then Kitchener really put forward a multicultural awareness program while Waterloo supported their International students in hopes that they would make Waterloo home...
Pending on your employment background and your hope for your children's future I think KW would be an excellent choice, we have three different educational programs available for school age children, two of the best Universities in Canada, as well as a very large Polytechnic Collage. The employment sector is diverse and rapidly evolving as well.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - jamincan - 04-18-2015

I go to the Y at Fischer Hallman and Laurelwood and the mix of members is very multicultural with a lot of East Asian members in particular.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - verter - 04-18-2015

Thank you all for your opinions. It all sounds promising, I really hope I won't regret my decision to move in there.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - Viewfromthe42 - 04-20-2015

I am Caucasian myself, but with the language issue, it becomes a barrier. The many non-Caucasian friends I have had in life have tended to speak better of Canadian experiences when they sought to speak English in public, and Hindi/Farsi/Cantonese/etc at home or within those community centres.

Imagine for a moment a couple talking about random subjects, and looking at you, then your kids, then someone else, then some birds. Now, imagine them looking in the same ways, but this time they are covering their mouths and whispering while doing the same things. That barrier suddenly creates discomfort, and it can be the same when speaking a language not understood by anyone around. When I grew up in English communities but wanted to learn how to speak French, my family would do so at home a great deal, but we would not have conversations in French in public places that were English speaking; it only created an unnecessary barrier. I learned to speak French and did not have more difficulty with it because I didn't speak it in public non-French places.

If there is concern about the friendliness of people, do consider that barrier. When you come across people speaking a language you don't understand, you are inevitably going to be less likely to strike up a conversation with them, and children especially will face challenges; kids will be even more likely to see fellow children speaking an unfamiliar language, and naturally will gravitate towards the kids they can understand. The same thing happens everywhere; the classmates I had in university, I would be in groups with all different backgrounds, but with a stark difference being that the choice some people of any background would make to speak non-English exclusively in class would inevitably not wind up associating with me.

I don't want to give you misgivings about the area; it is incredibly wonderful for all family types, and I know families at all stages who love it here and have found great community. If you can find an urban location here, your children will be in for a wonderful treat with the close-knit family communities near the cores, and things like the free Waterloo Park splash pad and zoo. My sister lived in Montreal for a couple years, and she also felt distant from the people there. I just hope that you consider that the first impression anyone will have when coming across people they don't know is whether they are open and welcoming, or closed off and distant, and language barriers create an immediate barrier when you first come across someone. Later, once you have familiarity though, many parents and kids can appreciate being "let in on the secret," and as a kid I enjoyed learning words and phrases in different languages. We do have a great and proud multicultural community and groups of such organizations, and I hope that if you and your family come here, you will see and take in the best we have to offer :-).


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - panamaniac - 04-20-2015

I don't really agree with that, although I can't dispute your personal experience. To me the distinction is one of whether people are speaking among themselves in a language other than English (very common and perfectly acceptable - you rarely go into Tim Hortons without seeing a table of foreign language speakers socializing among themselves) or whether they are attempting to interact with the larger community in a foreign language (just doesn't happen, or in the rare cases where the person speaks no English at all, one reverts to a lot of pointing and hand gestures). If verter were in K-W, I would see a future in which he and his family use their mother tongue within the family and with others of their ethnic community, and English in their interactions with the broader community.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - mpd618 - 04-20-2015

(04-20-2015, 09:06 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: I am Caucasian myself, but with the language issue, it becomes a barrier. The many non-Caucasian friends I have had in life have tended to speak better of Canadian experiences when they sought to speak English in public, and Hindi/Farsi/Cantonese/etc at home or within those community centres.

Imagine for a moment a couple talking about random subjects, and looking at you, then your kids, then someone else, then some birds. Now, imagine them looking in the same ways, but this time they are covering their mouths and whispering while doing the same things. That barrier suddenly creates discomfort, and it can be the same when speaking a language not understood by anyone around. ...

This is odd to me, as someone who is white and has occasion to speak a language other than English in public. I don't think I have encountered this myself in KW, nor have I really felt that towards others. Now, if this experience is limited to non-white people who speak languages other than English, then our community may have a problem....


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - verter - 04-20-2015

I'm grateful for all you joining the discussion.

However it seems to get converted to language dispute which was not the main point.
Just to make things clearer, we are from the eastern Europe, we speak english well, way much better than many people around us in Quebec, and to me it looks like someone of you understood it that we try to speak to local people in our native language. We do speak in our native language at home and between each other in public only if we are alone, almost as Viewfromthe42 has suggested. We want our kids to preserve the lanuguage skills so we first teach them our language, they are too young yet and hardly speak the primary language, not mentioning english or french.

In order to eliminate assumption that people might be suspicious or feel discomfort about us speaking in a foreign language behind their backs, let me just use the most recent case as an example. We came to the largest local park on weekend and noticed that it's filled with local jewish community members only. I literally mean that there were nobody but them, meaning local people preferred to go away, though we haven't seen any reason as they were just playing and spending time as any other normal people. We do not belong to this community and don't know their language, but we did not feel any discomfort of staying there for 2 hours - the kids had fun that's all we needed. Once they all left one local couple with two daughters had come. Their kids look bright and happy. My eldest kids was looking at the gooses behind the fence when one girl of his age joined him. All he did he turned to her and told 'Look, it's a goose!'. Just because he still does not understand that people round him mostly speak in a different language he told it in our language. At the very same moment the smile had disappeared from the girls face, parents grabbed her and the little one though she was eager to stay, and went away pretty fast. Just because my kids told that. It's sad and not a single case from our experiense.

But please let's not turn this to language dispute as I mentioned at the beginning. They are on their homeland and might have some reasons. My point is to make sure that on a new place my family will not experience that kind of an issue, and to make sure my kids will have friends.


RE: Moving to Waterloo with family, need opinion from residents - Drake - 04-21-2015

Verter, years ago I was in Aylmer Ontario and I stopped in at a grocery store that was in the process of closing. Not being familiar with the town, I asked a woman who was loading up her car with groceries where the next nearest grocery store might be. She turned around and looked right through me. Her husband joined her, but his look was that of contempt that I spoke to her. These folks were dressed as some kind of Mennonite. Not being intimately familiar with the mennonites or whatever that was about, I chalked it up to me making some kind of social faux pas. The reality is these people were probably being incredibly rude.

The world is full of idiots and we all take our turn.

If you have never been to Waterloo, I suggest you make the trip for a weekend to see what we are all about before committing to the advice of a half dozen anonymous strangers on a website. If you need suggestions on things to see or do, or places to stay just ask.

Not sure what part or how far in Eastern Europe you are from, but there are lots of Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, Ukrainians and Romanians that live in this area to name just a few.