Waterloo Region Connected
General Road and Highway Discussion - Printable Version

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RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - panamaniac - 07-11-2017

(07-11-2017, 10:11 AM)MidTowner Wrote: "(getting confused as to where the lane continues on the far side of the intersection)"

Was that the reason? I'm trying to think about how you could get confused about that there. At least, confused enough to cross the yellow line.

I wondered the same thing as I couldn't see from the videos any "design cues" other than the minor jag in the lane at Charles that might cause confusion.  In fact, you can see that the driver is beginning to crowd/cross the yellow line even as he/she approaches Charles.  I always warn people not used to driving in K-W to be on alert for "oblivious driving".  It happens everywhere, but I do find local drivers prone to the strange and unexpected in ways that I don't seem as much elsewhere.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Markster - 07-11-2017

(07-11-2017, 10:11 AM)MidTowner Wrote: Was that the reason? I'm trying to think about how you could get confused about that there. At least, confused enough to cross the yellow line.

I doubt the person was maliciously doing it.

You can see as they approach Charles that they press on the brakes. They're slowing down. It's clear that they are unsure about something. I'm guessing they see the ION tracks curving across the intersection, and get confused/distracted by them. They're not used to driving through an intersection with a diagonal curving hunk of concrete through it. Perhaps their gut response to concrete is that it's a curb, so they begin a correction away from it (the drift to the left in the intersection) but then they quickly realize that there's nowhere to go, and that it's not actually an obstacle. They refocus on the road ahead, and realign their car in the lane ahead, not realizing that they've drifted an entire lane to the left. Perhaps they notice the stop bar they drove over, but assume it must be a glimpse of the pedestrian crosswalk; they were too busy reorienting themselves after the intersection confusion to know for sure.

Do you have another theory?


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - jamincan - 07-11-2017

My guess: they are distracted and their eyes are off the road. They start the curve, but you can see that they keep tracking the same curve even after the lane straightens out. Because they're essentially steering through peripheral vision, they are maintaining their position within the right-of-way rather than within the lane markings, which are harder to register in peripheral vision. You can see that their position in the ROW once they are through the intersection is approximately the same as when they entered due to the presence of the ION tracks causing the driving lanes to shift within the ROW. As their vehicle starts tracking further left in the ROW even crossing into the right-most on-coming lane, they probably noticed in their peripheral vision and were finally cued to reorient themselves (their brake lights finally come on) but by the time they were oriented, they were unable to move into the correct lane.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - MidTowner - 07-11-2017

My theory was that he or she was looking at a cell phone (or some other distraction) when passing through the intersection, and didn't look up enough to realize he was on the wrong side of the yellow line, then straightened up in the lane he found himself in when he finally did look up.

I guess it's entirely possible that was that person's very first time on Victoria through there, and the distraction was caused by the Ion tracks and other features, and not by something in the car.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - GtwoK - 07-11-2017

I won't lie, a few days ago driving through this intersection (Charles / Victoria), albeit the opposite direction, I nearly did something similar. Mind you, I was paying attention to the road, so I didn't, but it's not hard to see ho it happened, IMO. The road curves right at that intersection, but it's is a very narrow curve, rather than being wide and leading into / out of the intersection - that is to say, it only really curves AT the intersection.

No doubt the driver is at fault, and they obviously were not paying attention, but I can see how the intersection could be problematic.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Canard - 07-11-2017

Hopefully, once final paving is complete here (is it? Can't remember, and not in the country), they'll paint the lines right over the concrete as well. They have to.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - danbrotherston - 07-11-2017

The paving is complete at this intersection already.

And no, they won't put the lines over the concrete, because they never put lines through an intersection anyway.

Usually we rely on driver's ability to .... not do that....

Also, I wouldn't call what the other drivers did a minor error. Yes, no doubt caused by the herd mentality, but I don't think that excuses such an obvious driving error, especially given how far back they were.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - chutten - 07-11-2017

There are intersections in the region with lines dotted through them. Only for left-turns, if I don't miss my guess (like the multi-left off the expressway onto Fischer-Hallman), so they wouldn't help with straight-throughs like this...

Oh wait, there's that one out the North-East end of town... where is that... Here's it is, Northfield at Line 86: https://goo.gl/maps/Awa1jm39NtS2

Not that squiggly of an intersection to have a dotted line through it, but I guess the speeds (90km/hr zone) and distances (good grief but the intersection is _enormous_) warrant it?

I guess the point is that we've done it elsewhere in the Region, so maybe we'll see it done in the downtown? (Especially if the video gets surfaced to the appropriate councilors... )


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - KevinL - 07-11-2017

Paving is complete in a number of areas, and no paint (including pedestrian crossings) has gone onto LRT concrete that I have seen...


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Markster - 07-11-2017

There's lane painting through the intersection of King/Allen as well to help guide cars, where the LRT crosses from in-median to side-running. It's not unprecedented to add visual aids for these non-standard intersections.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - KevinT - 07-11-2017

(07-11-2017, 03:03 PM)Markster Wrote: There's lane painting through the intersection of King/Allen as well to help guide cars, where the LRT crosses from in-median to side-running.  It's not unprecedented to add visual aids for these non-standard intersections.

I drove through that this morning and was dismayed to see that they didn't paint over the concrete portion around the embedded tracks -- the guidelines just stop and restart again.  :-(


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - tomh009 - 07-11-2017

(07-11-2017, 03:11 PM)KevinT Wrote:
(07-11-2017, 03:03 PM)Markster Wrote: There's lane painting through the intersection of King/Allen as well to help guide cars, where the LRT crosses from in-median to side-running.  It's not unprecedented to add visual aids for these non-standard intersections.

I drove through that this morning and was dismayed to see that they didn't paint over the concrete portion around the embedded tracks -- the guidelines just stop and restart again.  :-(

Same situation at Charles and Borden.  It's really not obvious.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Markster - 07-11-2017

Oh yeah, the ION team helpfully posted a photo that includes King/Allen

[Image: 19956136_10155532033612959_4476631161910...e=5A106211]


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - danbrotherston - 07-11-2017

(07-11-2017, 04:08 PM)Markster Wrote: Oh yeah, the ION team helpfully posted a photo that includes King/Allen

[Image: 19956136_10155532033612959_4476631161910...e=5A106211]

That is as close to confusing as it could be, but any reasonable (cautious) but confused driver should simply assume it is right turn only.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Viewfromthe42 - 07-11-2017

Given there is a straight/right symbol right before the stop line, a reasonable driver would hopefully recognize this symbol and understand that there is a way to go straight.