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+--- Thread: General Road and Highway Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=335)
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RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - MidTowner - 03-07-2017
This isn't inherent to roundabouts, of course, and optimistically this will improve as motorists in the Region acclimate to roundabouts, but I don't think it's accurate to say "possibly failing to yield drivers." I would say that the majority of motorists around here do not yield to people on foot as they should. I know that this probably still "only" equates to a short wait to cross in most cases, but it's nerve-racking. It's my thinking that we need to pay attention to not only objective safety, but also perceived safety. If we're trying to encourage people to get around by different modes of transport (I don't know if we are, but we usually say so), the perception of safety is important, too. And convenience.
Again, though, that's not really inherent to roundabouts. People on foot do have the right of way. Maybe that should be enforced.
"The same things that make roundabouts safe for drivers make them safer for pedestrians...Specifically, there's only one place to look for cars to be coming from, pedestrians will see them, even if drivers aren't looking or yielding. And relatively low speeds mean that collisions which do happen are relatively minor, compared with a signalized intersection."
I didn't think that speeds were slower in a roundabout. My understanding was that it was the angle of collisions between vehicles that made them less severe, not the speeds. Most people on foot struck by cars in intersections are struck by turning vehicles- it doesn't seem likely that a vehicle making (say) a right in a signalized intersection with a relatively tight corner would be traveling slower than a vehicle making a right in a roundabout.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - tomh009 - 03-07-2017
(03-07-2017, 09:11 PM)MidTowner Wrote: This isn't inherent to roundabouts, of course, and optimistically this will improve as motorists in the Region acclimate to roundabouts, but I don't think it's accurate to say "possibly failing to yield drivers." I would say that the majority of motorists around here do not yield to people on foot as they should. (...)Walking downtown, as I do, I actually find that most drivers will let a pedestrian cross (at a stop sign, or turning right on red/green) or slow down for pedestrians (jaywalking at Victoria Park). I actually feel pretty good about the urban driving etiquette in Kitchener.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - danbrotherston - 03-07-2017
(03-07-2017, 09:11 PM)MidTowner Wrote: This isn't inherent to roundabouts, of course, and optimistically this will improve as motorists in the Region acclimate to roundabouts, but I don't think it's accurate to say "possibly failing to yield drivers." I would say that the majority of motorists around here do not yield to people on foot as they should. I know that this probably still "only" equates to a short wait to cross in most cases, but it's nerve-racking. It's my thinking that we need to pay attention to not only objective safety, but also perceived safety. If we're trying to encourage people to get around by different modes of transport (I don't know if we are, but we usually say so), the perception of safety is important, too. And convenience.
Again, though, that's not really inherent to roundabouts. People on foot do have the right of way. Maybe that should be enforced.
I'm certainly not going to disagree that drivers fail to yield far far too often. In fact, this was something to get used to in the Netherlands, and heck, even a big North American city like Boston. Upon arriving at a crosswalk, I could just walk out, and I knew traffic would stop. Here, you really do have to make eye contact, and force traffic to stop by sticking a foot out, a hand out, etc. Which brings to your next point of perceived safety. Yes, I think perceived safety is very important for active transportation (although far less for walking than for biking). But I don't think we should trade actual safety for perceived safety if roundabouts are actually more safe, then they're better than signalized intersections even if they're feel less safe. But, I'm all for figuring out ways to make them feel safer too. That being said, I think learning to deal with them, becoming experienced with them (and having drivers actually yield) would do wonders for improving that.
(03-07-2017, 09:11 PM)MidTowner Wrote: I didn't think that speeds were slower in a roundabout. My understanding was that it was the angle of collisions between vehicles that made them less severe, not the speeds. Most people on foot struck by cars in intersections are struck by turning vehicles- it doesn't seem likely that a vehicle making (say) a right in a signalized intersection with a relatively tight corner would be traveling slower than a vehicle making a right in a roundabout.
When it comes to vehicle-vehicle collisions, lower speeds definitely matter. Cars traveling through a green light might be going 15-20 km/h over the limit. Through a yellow light, even 25 km/h over. Compare at a roundabout where even someone speeding excessively is unlikely to be going more than 40 km/h.
That being said, for pedestrians, you might be right, collisions at roundabouts are probably at the same speed as by a turning vehicle at a signalized intersection, which I think is the most common type of collision. Also, to be fair, roundabouts here have fairly generous turning radii (too much so IMO), and traffic is likely to be going faster there, than at a tight radius right turn--the two or three of those that exist in the region
.However, there are some other types of collisions possible at signalized intersections, for one, not everyone respects signals. Both drivers, and pedestrians might cheat them, and have a resulting full through speed collision. As well, any collision or near collision between turning and straight vehicles might result in a straight vehicle careening into a pedestrian at full speed, or pushing the turning vehicle into a pedestrian.
These collisions are rarer, but are probably responsible for a higher percentage of the injuries than of total collisions, and they're largely eliminated at roundabouts.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - timc - 03-08-2017
Anecdotally, I find that drivers are most dangerous to pedestrians when they are making right turns. They have become accustomed to only looking to the left for vehicles, and often forget to look to the right for pedestrians, or to check their blind spot for cyclists. This is true at all types of intersections. As you know, all turns at roundabouts are right turns (notwithstanding any, um, exceptional drivers), so they are all dangerous for pedestrians. This is mitigated by the fact that pedestrians have things a bit easier, only needing to cross one direction at a time.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Canard - 03-08-2017
Pedestrians could really go a step here to help out drivers by obeying the signals, too. When driving in a busy intersection, nothing irks me more than seeing someone start to cross on a Don't Walk when I could have very safely made my turn.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - timio - 03-08-2017
While driving in England last fall, I noticed they attempt to use lane markings and overhead signage for their roundabouts, similar to the Lancaster/Bridge roundabout to aid in the navigation process. I found this to be helpful, mostly because I was typically unfamiliar with the area added to being a n00b to driving on the left (took me 2 days before I didn't have to very intentionally make myself look up to the left to see the rear-view mirror.)
You enter the roundabout in the lane that will naturally take you to the exit, so you don't have to cross over the outside lane to exit.
Example: https://goo.gl/maps/4RrtSH5Ja322
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Canard - 03-08-2017
Shoot, I totally forgot that the Bridge/Lancaster roundabout has overhead signage!
I was thinking that "my" big 3-laner at Pinebush/Franklin was the first in the Region to have them.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - p2ee - 03-08-2017
The Victoria/Fredrick exit off of 85 South was closed today. Does anyone know why? I wouldn't think this is related to highway 7 construction - the relevant work isn't scheduled any time this month.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - SammyOES2 - 03-08-2017
Twitter just told me "Road Work": https://twitter.com/570traffic/status/839465776100818944
Maybe just typical 'Spring' repairs?
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - ijmorlan - 03-08-2017
(03-08-2017, 07:24 AM)Canard Wrote: Pedestrians could really go a step here to help out drivers by obeying the signals, too. When driving in a busy intersection, nothing irks me more than seeing someone start to cross on a Don't Walk when I could have very safely made my turn.
Totally agree. I will confess to sometimes walking against the red — but my rule is, I only do so when there is no car driver that might even possibly have to think about whether I’m in their way. Which in practice means I would hardly ever do it at an intersection — there is almost always a car somewhere that might be involved.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Canard - 03-08-2017
As a driver, I very much appreciate that. As a pedestrian, I always stand well back from the corner... because I know as a driver I hate when people stand riiiiiiight at the edge and I never know if they're going to dart out in front of me randomly against their signal.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - embe - 03-08-2017
(03-08-2017, 12:01 PM)SammyOES2 Wrote: Twitter just told me "Road Work": https://twitter.com/570traffic/status/839465776100818944
Maybe just typical 'Spring' repairs?
Good question, but the concrete barriers and patched over signs make me think it could be something a bit more involved. Which is odd that I drive past this exit multiple times a day and not once saw any advance warning it would be closed.
what gives?
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - GtwoK - 03-08-2017
(03-08-2017, 11:08 AM)p2ee Wrote: The Victoria/Fredrick exit off of 85 South was closed today. Does anyone know why? I wouldn't think this is related to highway 7 construction - the relevant work isn't scheduled any time this month.
Something the MTO sent my company :
Quote:The Edna Street N-Ramp is planned to be closed starting tomorrow night (March 7th, 2017) at 10:00 PM continuing through until approximately October 20, 2017. This is to facilitate construction of a retaining wall along the Saab Dealership property and to relocate some existing sanitary sewers in this area.
This is the ramp from Southbound Hwy 85 to exit off the highway and go to either Victoria Street or Frederick Street.
Additionally, there is an upcoming closure needed for approximately 3 weeks at the Wellington Street W-S Ramp (the ramp near the eastmost Christie entrance) but we are unable to confirm the exact timing of this ramp closure yet. It’s tentatively scheduled for some time between mid-May and mid-June. We will confirm as soon as we know for sure.
(03-08-2017, 07:10 PM)embe Wrote:(03-08-2017, 12:01 PM)SammyOES2 Wrote: Twitter just told me "Road Work": https://twitter.com/570traffic/status/839465776100818944
Maybe just typical 'Spring' repairs?
Good question, but the concrete barriers and patched over signs make me think it could be something a bit more involved. Which is odd that I drive past this exit multiple times a day and not once saw any advance warning it would be closed.
I'm 100% positive there were sign posted at least a week ago, but I can't remember where. I remember driving past and seeing it, thinking "Oh, gotta remember to post about that on WRC later!". Guess I forgot
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - p2ee - 03-08-2017
Ouch, October 20th. Good to know though.
RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - SammyOES2 - 03-08-2017
Hah. I guess road work was a bit of an understatement.