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General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Printable Version

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RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - jamincan - 02-02-2017

I'll have to check it out; thanks Chicopee!


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Canard - 02-03-2017

(02-02-2017, 04:43 PM)panamaniac Wrote: One stabbing at a seedy bar Downtown is one stabbing too many.  Unless the issue of the seedy bar is addressed, there will be more problems in future, one suspects.

This


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Viewfromthe42 - 02-03-2017

The "seedy bar" didn't create patrons that stab each other, period. The kind of person who would stab someone else is the problem, not Frankie's. Unless you're trying to say that Frankie's takes normal people and makes them want to stab each other, you are, to put it politely, speaking out your a** on this one. Yes, one stabbing is too many. Yes, I can even see how Frankie's would be more likely to attract this kind of patron. But Frankie's is not the problem.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - kaiserdiver - 02-03-2017

(02-03-2017, 01:24 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: The "seedy bar" didn't create patrons that stab each other, period. The kind of person who would stab someone else is the problem, not Frankie's. Unless you're trying to say that Frankie's takes normal people and makes them want to stab each other, you are, to put it politely, speaking out your a** on this one. Yes, one stabbing is too many. Yes, I can even see how Frankie's would be more likely to attract this kind of patron. But Frankie's is not the problem.

I'm not sure I completely agree. There is a precedent for holding bars and restaurants responsible for drunk driving. I don't know if the same principles would apply to a stabbing, legally, but I think you could argue that the bar had some responsibility if it emerges that the stabbers were being served even after it was clear they were drunk.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Rainrider22 - 02-03-2017

(02-03-2017, 01:34 PM)kaiserdiver Wrote:
(02-03-2017, 01:24 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: The "seedy bar" didn't create patrons that stab each other, period. The kind of person who would stab someone else is the problem, not Frankie's. Unless you're trying to say that Frankie's takes normal people and makes them want to stab each other, you are, to put it politely, speaking out your a** on this one. Yes, one stabbing is too many. Yes, I can even see how Frankie's would be more likely to attract this kind of patron. But Frankie's is not the problem.

I'm not sure I completely agree. There is a precedent for holding bars and restaurants responsible for drunk driving. I don't know if the same principles would apply to a stabbing, legally, but I think you could argue that the bar had some responsibility if it emerges that the stabbers were being served even after it was clear they were drunk.

You are correct. WRPS should be working in concert with the AGO and doing regular inspections. There should be more officers walking the Beat and doing regular checks. This proactive approach and continued progressive discipline will either cause the liquor licence to be taken away or the proprietor to take more responnsibilty.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Viewfromthe42 - 02-03-2017

If the patrons were beyond legal threshholds for continued serving of alcohol, that's one thing, but what someone does beyond that point is not the same thing. Someone driving home from a bar is not at all unusual. Someone stabbing people is.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Elmira Guy - 02-03-2017

(02-03-2017, 01:34 PM)kaiserdiver Wrote:
(02-03-2017, 01:24 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: The "seedy bar" didn't create patrons that stab each other, period. The kind of person who would stab someone else is the problem, not Frankie's. Unless you're trying to say that Frankie's takes normal people and makes them want to stab each other, you are, to put it politely, speaking out your a** on this one. Yes, one stabbing is too many. Yes, I can even see how Frankie's would be more likely to attract this kind of patron. But Frankie's is not the problem.


I'm not sure I completely agree. There is a precedent for holding bars and restaurants responsible for drunk driving. I don't know if the same principles would apply to a stabbing, legally, but I think you could argue that the bar had some responsibility if it emerges that the stabbers were being served even after it was clear they were drunk.

So if patrons, (overserved or otherwise) of say Beertown, McCabes, or Abe Erb were Involved in a multiple assault/stabbing, would you be as quick to lay the blame on those establishments or their patrons in general?
With no offence intended this all sounds a little classist to me.

I had in fact never heard of Frankie's Pub until this incident and I highly doubt the owners want their business to be associated with this. And I'm not some elitist who will only frequent the bars of my station. I have been to (the now gone) Marina's, Caper's (arguably the most rundown bar in K-W) and Corner Bar. I was treated well in all of these places and never felt at risk. I have found that the bars catering to university students are far more likely to see violence. And no, I'm not painting all university students with the same brush as I'm sure you're not painting all of Frankie's patrons either.

Of course one stabbing is one too many. But if we're going to argue for the closing down of businesses because a patron(s) of that business commits a violent act near or in that establishment, let's not cherry pick which establishment we direct punitive measures towards.

Finally, I have a number of friends with WRPS, and while I will need to ask them to be certain (I will do so this weekend), I will wager heavily that Frankie's Pub is not one of the bars in town that gives them the most grief.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Elmira Guy - 02-03-2017

I agree with what Rainrider22 said that there should be a more proactive approach by police and the AGCO. I'm all for that.
What I disagree with is the seeming view by some here that the problem of violence relates specifically or especially to "seedy" bars of the sort they wouldn't patronise. I don't patronise those places either (other than the few occasions mentioned in my previous post) but I don't begrudge those people who do, the overwhelming majority of whom do not commit violent acts.
They deserve a place to drink and frequent as well.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - rangersfan - 02-03-2017

Some people like getting drunk, some people become violent when they are drunk, some people have a knack for getting into trouble, when these elements are mixed more often than not trouble ensues.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - kaiserdiver - 02-04-2017

(02-03-2017, 05:52 PM)Elmira Guy Wrote:
(02-03-2017, 01:34 PM)kaiserdiver Wrote: I'm not sure I completely agree. There is a precedent for holding bars and restaurants responsible for drunk driving. I don't know if the same principles would apply to a stabbing, legally, but I think you could argue that the bar had some responsibility if it emerges that the stabbers were being served even after it was clear they were drunk.

So if patrons, (overserved or otherwise) of say Beertown, McCabes, or Abe Erb were Involved in a multiple assault/stabbing, would you be as quick to lay the blame on those establishments or their patrons in general?
With no offence intended this all sounds a little classist to me.

I had in fact never heard of Frankie's Pub until this incident and I highly doubt the owners want their business to be associated with this. And I'm not some elitist who will only frequent the bars of my station. I have been to (the now gone) Marina's, Caper's (arguably the most rundown bar in K-W) and Corner Bar. I was treated well in all of these places and never felt at risk. I have found that the bars catering to university students are far more likely to see violence. And no, I'm not painting all university students with the same brush as I'm sure you're not painting all of Frankie's patrons either.

Of course one stabbing is one too many. But if we're going to argue for the closing down of businesses because a patron(s) of that business commits a violent act near or in that establishment, let's not cherry pick which establishment we direct punitive measures towards.

Finally, I have a number of friends with WRPS, and while I will need to ask them to be certain (I will do so this weekend), I will wager heavily that Frankie's Pub is not one of the bars in town that gives them the most grief.

You're reading too much into what I wrote. A bar ultimately has some responsibility for what its patrons do, particularly if there is a pattern of dangerous or illegal behaviour, but I'm not saying this is the case with Frankie's or any other specific bar. I agree that there's a tendency to crack down on "seedy" bars, even as local golf clubs or steakhouses let too many people drive home after too many drinks. But this is the same city that bought out "the block that rocks" to get rid of it.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - embe - 02-05-2017

(02-03-2017, 06:50 PM)rangersfan Wrote: Some people like getting drunk, some people become violent when they are drunk, some people have a knack for getting into trouble, when these elements are mixed more often than not trouble ensues.

True.  I've been to plenty of dive bars and you take your chances walking through the door at some of these places.  Really comes down to your comfort level.  That's not being classist, it just means some some places cater to certain folks...or more like certain folks frequent certain places.  It's your choice to reward the establishment with your business (or not to).


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Elmira Guy - 02-05-2017

/\ When I used the term classist it was in response to what I inferred to be a view that issues of violence only, or predominantly happen at bars that cater to the sort of clientele that Frankie's Pub caters to. I think that's inaccurate just as is the view that issues of alcoholism and domestic violence are more prevalent amongst the lower-class.
If no one was suggesting such a thing then I apologise, but it did seem that some were taking that sort of view.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Section ThirtyOne - 02-06-2017

(02-05-2017, 04:53 PM)embe Wrote:
(02-03-2017, 06:50 PM)rangersfan Wrote: Some people like getting drunk, some people become violent when they are drunk, some people have a knack for getting into trouble, when these elements are mixed more often than not trouble ensues.

True.  I've been to plenty of dive bars and you take your chances walking through the door at some of these places.  Really comes down to your comfort level.  That's not being classist, it just means some some places cater to certain folks...or more like certain folks frequent certain places.  It's your choice to reward the establishment with your business (or not to).

Do you think that applies to Frankie's or Capers though? I've been to both and while not some place i'd hang out regularly, at no point did I ever feel unsafe or even unwelcome for that matter.


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - Elmira Guy - 02-06-2017

/\ Agree completely!

While I've never been to Frankie's, I've been to Marina's and Caper's a couple of times each and felt very welcome and safe. If you're not looking for troubtle it will very rarely find you. Conversely...


RE: General Food, Dining and Nightlife News - tomh009 - 02-06-2017

Human comfort levels (while in the presence of unfamiliar social groups) vary widely, though!