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+--- Thread: Walking in Waterloo Region (/showthread.php?tid=189)
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 09:10 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:(06-05-2017, 08:29 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: Is there any possibility of a median? In combination with your other proposals, this could provide crossing refuge space, either everywhere or in many individual locations (say, every 20-30m), which would make it even easier for pedestrian and vehicular traffic to co-exist.
While this is perhaps a reasonable idea, medians (I believe refuge islands included) necessitate extremely wide lanes (4.8 meters), which would be worse than no median IMO.
I think narrow lanes, cobbles, whatever it takes to show this is a shared space should be the minimum. There'd even be room for the, by some miracle, controversial sidewalk then.
?? Why does a median require wider lanes? If the lane is wide enough, it’s wide enough, whether or not it is next to the other-direction lane. I might see it on an arterial, where large trucks need to be able to go and maybe you even want to allow for vehicles to slowly pass a stopped vehicle, but through the park I would go with the narrowest workable lanes (2.5m? I don’t know — how wide is a truck, anyway?), separated by a 2m median. Or some such. Not sure exactly.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 09:23 AM)ijmorlan Wrote:(06-05-2017, 09:10 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: While this is perhaps a reasonable idea, medians (I believe refuge islands included) necessitate extremely wide lanes (4.8 meters), which would be worse than no median IMO.
I think narrow lanes, cobbles, whatever it takes to show this is a shared space should be the minimum. There'd even be room for the, by some miracle, controversial sidewalk then.
?? Why does a median require wider lanes? If the lane is wide enough, it’s wide enough, whether or not it is next to the other-direction lane. I might see it on an arterial, where large trucks need to be able to go and maybe you even want to allow for vehicles to slowly pass a stopped vehicle, but through the park I would go with the narrowest workable lanes (2.5m? I don’t know — how wide is a truck, anyway?), separated by a 2m median. Or some such. Not sure exactly.
It's city policy. Ostensibly, it is to allow plowing operations, because plows need more space to operate. But you can go argue with city policy makers if you like.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 09:37 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:(06-05-2017, 09:23 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: ?? Why does a median require wider lanes? If the lane is wide enough, it’s wide enough, whether or not it is next to the other-direction lane. I might see it on an arterial, where large trucks need to be able to go and maybe you even want to allow for vehicles to slowly pass a stopped vehicle, but through the park I would go with the narrowest workable lanes (2.5m? I don’t know — how wide is a truck, anyway?), separated by a 2m median. Or some such. Not sure exactly.
It's city policy. Ostensibly, it is to allow plowing operations, because plows need more space to operate. But you can go argue with city policy makers if you like.
OK, I get it. So the city could just get smaller plows, or use the sidewalk plows to plow that particular road, or make the median level with the traffic lanes but built out of cobbles (except for frequent pedestrian crossings), or any number of creative solutions to this unusual situation.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - Section ThirtyOne - 06-05-2017
Jubilee between Park and David would be a perfect spot for speed cameras. You can put all the traffic calming measures you want in, but the best deterrent is hitting the pocketbook.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - panamaniac - 06-05-2017
What are the accident/casualty numbers like on Jubilee, I wonder?
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - Pheidippides - 06-05-2017
According to city of kitchener open data:
9 collisions since 2006 with no increasing trend.
6 were under clear conditions.
5 were in daylight hours.
3 at private drive ways + 3 mid-block.
The above categories are not mutually exclusive (e.g. A crash could be in daylight, under clear conditions, at a private driveway).
Still a little high given small traffic volume.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - Canard - 06-05-2017
What are the collision rates at the Victoria/West area (where the IHT crosses)?
Every single time I bike through here, and merge in with traffic and cross at the intersection (as instructed by signage), I always end up passing the same people again who have not obeyed the signage, and simply cut across the road.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - tomh009 - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 05:38 AM)jamincan Wrote: I personally think they should keep it, but put in on a heavy diet. Narrower lanes, a boulevard, and cobbles, and then clear demarcations that pedestrians have the right-of-way at any point along the entire length through the park.
I walk along and/or cross there (within the park) daily, and I'm not finding a major traffic issue there. But maybe my criteria are too relaxed?
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - tomh009 - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 09:10 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think narrow lanes, cobbles, whatever it takes to show this is a shared space should be the minimum. There'd even be room for the, by some miracle, controversial sidewalk then.
The north-side sidewalk was built last fall already.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - Markster - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 12:41 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(06-05-2017, 09:10 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I think narrow lanes, cobbles, whatever it takes to show this is a shared space should be the minimum. There'd even be room for the, by some miracle, controversial sidewalk then.
The north-side sidewalk was built last fall already.
The north side sidewalk is incomplete, and they only built it part of the way through the park.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 12:38 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(06-05-2017, 05:38 AM)jamincan Wrote: I personally think they should keep it, but put in on a heavy diet. Narrower lanes, a boulevard, and cobbles, and then clear demarcations that pedestrians have the right-of-way at any point along the entire length through the park.
I walk along and/or cross there (within the park) daily, and I'm not finding a major traffic issue there. But maybe my criteria are too relaxed?
I would think your criteria are too relaxed. I consider there to be a traffic issue when I am a) held up by, or b) made uncomfortable by car traffic within a park.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 12:52 PM)Markster Wrote:(06-05-2017, 12:41 PM)tomh009 Wrote: The north-side sidewalk was built last fall already.
The north side sidewalk is incomplete, and they only built it part of the way through the park.
Depends on your definition of "complete"...as far as the city is concerned it is complete. How in the world there is contention about a sidewalk in a park, I will never know.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-05-2017
Accident rates do not tell the whole story. Just because there are few/no accidents does not mean it isn't an inconvenient, uncomfortable, disruptive, or disincentivising of active transportation crossing. This is true for both West/Victoria/IHT and the park.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - panamaniac - 06-05-2017
It's certainly true that the crossing near the Boathouse is inconvenient - at the moment, it seems that the cars have right of way, which needs to be put right.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-05-2017
(06-05-2017, 04:59 PM)panamaniac Wrote: It's certainly true that the crossing near the Boathouse is inconvenient - at the moment, it seems that the cars have right of way, which needs to be put right.
There's no 'seems' about it. Cars have the right of way at all crossings within the park. Of course, they often yield, which is even worse because it becomes inconsistent. I'm fairly sure the right of way policy actually happening is pessimal.