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+--- Thread: Walking in Waterloo Region (/showthread.php?tid=189)
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 11-30-2016
(11-30-2016, 09:22 AM)jamincan Wrote: The City is already responsible for clearing small bits of sidewalks all over the place. As an example, there is a stretch on Laurelwood immediately east of Erbsville that the City is responsible for. I figured this out after it went uncleared for over a month two years ago and I went to the trouble of figuring out who was responsible for it so I could register a complaint. It turned out it was the City who was shirking their duty. These bits of sidewalk are scattered all over the city. Clearing the sidewalks they're responsible for now is possibly the least efficient method possible. Just paying a little bit more to have them clear all the sidewalks makes far more sense to me.
Yes, the city clears all "backlotted" sidewalks. Sadly sometimes they do get missed. You're right though, the current setup is near pessimal.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - MidTowner - 11-30-2016
(11-30-2016, 08:36 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: There really isn’t a colourable argument for the status quo at all. The only legitimate question is how thorough a job should the City do? So presumably they would have a small snow plow. Should it be followed by an army of low-rent people with shovels to clean up any small amounts missed by the snow plow? Is there anything else they could do? Should there be an option to have them do ones front walk and/or driveway? How should plowrows be handled? This is where the debate should be, not on a bogus debate about whether the City should be involved at all.
I'm originally a Londoner, and affirm danbrotherston's comment that the municipality there does a pretty terrible job of clearing the snow. You can see in Kitchener staff's report that their service standard is "snow-packed." Growing up, my father would clear the snow off the sidewalk adjacent to our house because it was part of our and other kids' route to school, and the municipality didn't do a very good job. But he and the City of London were working at cross purposes: if he cleared it before they did and put some sand down, the bobcat would push snow from the other properties onto his stretch of sidewalk. If the bobcat got to it before he did, it would become a packed-down layer of snow that would be needlessly difficult to clear.
The current standard in Kitchener is bare concrete. Some property owner's achieve this, some are happy to leave a layer of packed snow that makes walking slower at best, and some do nothing. In the latter two cases, city staff could enforce and demand bare concrete. If city staff were themselves clearing the snow, the standard would likely be less, and would often fail to be met.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 11-30-2016
So I wonder if TriTAG can setup some sort of automated system to make it easier to submit complaints. I bet if I reported every sidewalk I walk past that has snow on it through the winter, I could easily make 1000 complaints myself, but spending that much time on the phone with the City of Kitchener contact centre doesn't sound like a good time to me.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - Pheidippides - 11-30-2016
Can you do that through the report a problem portion of the Pingstreet app?
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - darts - 11-30-2016
(11-30-2016, 03:47 AM)BuildingScout Wrote:(11-29-2016, 09:45 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Hard to say for sure, I do know I've heard many individuals express the belief that the city should clear the sidewalks. They don't seem to clue in that they'd be the ones paying for it, instead they seem to feel entitled to have the city do it for free. Of course, I'm the entitlement generation.
An important part of the city-cleared sidewalks argument is that it wold be substantially cheaper if done using a city-owned bobcat snowplower.
How would it be cheaper if most homes clear the snow off the sidewalk themselves at no cost. For the ones that don't call bylaw, that is an enforcement issue, if they continue not doing it the city will do it and charge them.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - BuildingScout - 12-01-2016
(11-30-2016, 11:57 PM)darts Wrote:(11-30-2016, 03:47 AM)BuildingScout Wrote: An important part of the city-cleared sidewalks argument is that it wold be substantially cheaper if done using a city-owned bobcat snowplower.
How would it be cheaper if most homes clear the snow off the sidewalk themselves at no cost. For the ones that don't call bylaw, that is an enforcement issue, if they continue not doing it the city will do it and charge them.
Oh don't be fooled. The fact that no cash changes hands does not mean its free. Your labour is valuable and you have been required to donate it to the city.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 12-01-2016
(12-01-2016, 03:07 AM)BuildingScout Wrote:(11-30-2016, 11:57 PM)darts Wrote: How would it be cheaper if most homes clear the snow off the sidewalk themselves at no cost. For the ones that don't call bylaw, that is an enforcement issue, if they continue not doing it the city will do it and charge them.
Oh don't be fooled. The fact that no cash changes hands does not mean its free. Your labour is valuable and you have been required to donate it to the city.
Exactly on point. We could even make the city snow clearing opt-out: if you want your $50/year (or whatever) back, then fine, you get it back, and when the city crews come to do your street, instead of clearing the sidewalk in front of your house they will issue a ticket if it is not clear (or maybe call Bylaw to come by and issue a ticket in the next couple of hours if it is still not clear).
Let’s get real. How many people would really opt out? This is a non-debate, except as to the appropriate clearing standard.
Here’s an idea though: divide the city up into areas. A volunteer for each area goes after every snowfall and reports every (every!) property that is not properly cleared. City revenue from fines goes through the roof; so does support for having the city clear sidewalks. Could this work?
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - MidTowner - 12-01-2016
(12-01-2016, 06:24 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: Exactly on point. We could even make the city snow clearing opt-out: if you want your $50/year (or whatever) back, then fine, you get it back, and when the city crews come to do your street, instead of clearing the sidewalk in front of your house they will issue a ticket if it is not clear (or maybe call Bylaw to come by and issue a ticket in the next couple of hours if it is still not clear).
Let’s get real. How many people would really opt out? This is a non-debate, except as to the appropriate clearing standard.
We couldn't do that. Many property owners would opt out. Most of those would meet whatever relatively low standard the municipal government sets for itself, and then we would have a situation where the municipality clears half of the frontages on a street, probably at practically the same cost as clearing them all.
(12-01-2016, 06:24 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: Here’s an idea though: divide the city up into areas. A volunteer for each area goes after every snowfall and reports every (every!) property that is not properly cleared. City revenue from fines goes through the roof; so does support for having the city clear sidewalks. Could this work?
I think that could work. It would be a time commitment from a few folks, but it would be a good way to get information to the City.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - Viewfromthe42 - 12-01-2016
I don't think it should be that hard to set up a system whereby volunteers marked areas they would be willing to verify, and someone centrally took contact information from them so as to notify them once the grace period is over for a particular city, whereupon volunteers could report violations to the city, perhaps in bulk in a single call, by noting which addresses on which streets they agreed to check were in violation.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - Canard - 12-01-2016
So now we're organizing how we're going to tattle tale on people who might miss shoveling the sidewalk in front of their house once because of life circumstances? Really?
I'm guessing everyone suggesting this lives in an apartment or doesn't have a driveway or sidewalk of their own to shovel!
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - MidTowner - 12-01-2016
You're guessing wrong.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - MidTowner - 12-01-2016
(12-01-2016, 02:18 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: I don't think it should be that hard to set up a system whereby volunteers marked areas they would be willing to verify, and someone centrally took contact information from them so as to notify them once the grace period is over for a particular city, whereupon volunteers could report violations to the city, perhaps in bulk in a single call, by noting which addresses on which streets they agreed to check were in violation.
The grace period is actually an important point. It's less than straightforward to guess whether the City might consider it "late" to clear a sidewalk, since the clock can "reset" if it starts to snow again.
It's not a bad system, and I'd be up for it. I informally do this in my neighbourhood and other areas I walk in. I'm sure others do, too. Maybe if there was more of a system people would feel more accountable to do it more consistently, and better information would get to the City.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - panamaniac - 12-01-2016
(12-01-2016, 06:24 AM)ijmorlan Wrote:(12-01-2016, 03:07 AM)BuildingScout Wrote: Oh don't be fooled. The fact that no cash changes hands does not mean its free. Your labour is valuable and you have been required to donate it to the city.
Exactly on point. We could even make the city snow clearing opt-out: if you want your $50/year (or whatever) back, then fine, you get it back, and when the city crews come to do your street, instead of clearing the sidewalk in front of your house they will issue a ticket if it is not clear (or maybe call Bylaw to come by and issue a ticket in the next couple of hours if it is still not clear).
Let’s get real. How many people would really opt out? This is a non-debate, except as to the appropriate clearing standard.
Here’s an idea though: divide the city up into areas. A volunteer for each area goes after every snowfall and reports every (every!) property that is not properly cleared. City revenue from fines goes through the roof; so does support for having the city clear sidewalks. Could this work?
Snow narcs! I can see a new city motto - Kitchener, not friendly, but at least the sidewalks are clear.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 12-01-2016
(12-01-2016, 02:26 PM)Canard Wrote: So now we're organizing how we're going to tattle tale on people who might miss shoveling the sidewalk in front of their house once because of life circumstances? Really?
I'm guessing everyone suggesting this lives in an apartment or doesn't have a driveway or sidewalk of their own to shovel!
My intent is to push the political calculus towards having the city take over sidewalk clearing. It’s indisputably the right thing to do, but how do you convince the political system to do it? My suggestion is somewhat tongue-in-cheek anyhow because I don’t think it’s really likely to find enough volunteers to do the job. The point is that if the city did it, then individuals could stop worrying about clearing their sidewalk entirely and just pay their taxes instead. As long as people are supposed to do it, rigorous enforcement will both encourage people to do it, and simultaneously encourage them to support having the city do it.
RE: Walking in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 12-01-2016
(12-01-2016, 02:05 PM)MidTowner Wrote:(12-01-2016, 06:24 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: Exactly on point. We could even make the city snow clearing opt-out: if you want your $50/year (or whatever) back, then fine, you get it back, and when the city crews come to do your street, instead of clearing the sidewalk in front of your house they will issue a ticket if it is not clear (or maybe call Bylaw to come by and issue a ticket in the next couple of hours if it is still not clear).
Let’s get real. How many people would really opt out? This is a non-debate, except as to the appropriate clearing standard.
We couldn't do that. Many property owners would opt out. Most of those would meet whatever relatively low standard the municipal government sets for itself, and then we would have a situation where the municipality clears half of the frontages on a street, probably at practically the same cost as clearing them all.
Why do you think that? By opting out you get back maybe one fine payment on your taxes, if that, and in return you’re responsible for clearing after every snowfall and subject yourself to liability to fines for failing. Certainly nobody who pays a snow-clearing company is going to opt out — there is no way the snow clearing company is doing it for less than the opt-out amount.