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+--- Thread: Cycling in Waterloo Region (/showthread.php?tid=186)
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RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - jamincan - 01-21-2022
Wilson is a key connector for Hidden Valley unless doing that weird route through parking lots you suggested (I happen to think parking lots are terrible for safety, fwiw.) and it is not even remotely a safe cycling route. I believe there is an ambition to build some sort of cycling connection along there, due to its importance, but afaik that's been on the docket for a number of years now with no progress.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 01-21-2022
(01-21-2022, 10:14 AM)jamincan Wrote: Wilson is a key connector for Hidden Valley unless doing that weird route through parking lots you suggested (I happen to think parking lots are terrible for safety, fwiw.) and it is not even remotely a safe cycling route. I believe there is an ambition to build some sort of cycling connection along there, due to its importance, but afaik that's been on the docket for a number of years now with no progress.
There is a MUT along Wilson up to Goodrich Dr. I think, but not over the tracks. I know there is interest in making the connection from Goodrich to Traynor but I think it's going to be a challenge.
But no, I was referring to is the weird route through parking lots.
Parking lots feel unsafe, that doesn't make them unsafe. Generally drivers are moving very slowly, rarely does anyone exceed 30km/h. There is a lot going on, so collisions are probably more likely, but the low speeds means that collisions are still unlikely and very unlikely to be significant. And also because visibility on a bike is so much better than visibility in a car, I suspect cyclists are even safer in a parking lot than .... well, let's say bumpers and fenders.
I don't think it's possible to understate the effect of speed on safety.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - the_conestoga_guy - 01-21-2022
I do agree that the status quo for wayfinding is pretty abysmal, unless you're already on a major trail. But it's 2022 now, and everyone* uses Google Maps to navigate. I'd love to see some attention payed to the routing in Google Maps when "cycling" mode is selected. In a perfect world, the user skill level could be selected (like this map in Ottawa, which I've shamelessly stolen from the aforementioned Reddit thread: https://maps.bikeottawa.ca/lts/ ), and different route options could be made available depending on that selection. Of course, the route options will remain limited until more infrastructure projects are completed. I just think that this collaboration with Google Maps would be the most universally accessible tool for casual riders.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - plam - 01-21-2022
(01-19-2022, 09:36 PM)ac3r Wrote: But I'd like to live in a city where I don't have to "just Google it" (DuckDuckGo, though). I'd like to be able to grab my bike and go to where I need to go in a safe way, not spend 20 minutes mapping out where I can do so without the risk of getting killed. Before the era of Just Googling It, you would have to figure out that sort of stuff on your own anyway. It's not like most drivers rely on GPS to get around the city because they have enough roads to use and figure that out...the same should be true for cyclists. Sans making a few wrong turns, it should be safe to ride on major roads to get to where you need to go.
I don't drive a lot and when I do I usually do just Google it.
There is another point that no one has mentioned, though. Unless you have a bike phone mount, turn-by-turn directions aren't that convenient when pedalling around. (They're also kind of unsafe when driving around unless you have a car mount, but how many drivers care about that?)
Also Kitchener in particular has quite a few wayfinding signs now, but so does Waterloo, if you are on the network (Iron Horse, Spur Line, Laurel Creek)...
(01-21-2022, 09:42 AM)jamincan Wrote: I've said in the past and a still believe that probably the biggest bang for the buck improvement the region and city could make for active transportation is identifying a minimum network of safe routes from various sectors on the city and then signing those really well and addressing obstacles along them. There are some areas that are worse off than others (and Hidden Valley is one, in my opinion, though also very low priority), but there are the bones of a pretty decent safe network that some targeted spending could make highly effective. Discoverability remains a huge problem, and uptake in active transportation is going to be hindered until it is properly addressed.
Grid, yes.
Not sure that amalgamation would help with this. Depends on if it's the Regional approach or the City approaches that win out.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 01-21-2022
(01-21-2022, 06:21 PM)plam Wrote:(01-19-2022, 09:36 PM)ac3r Wrote: But I'd like to live in a city where I don't have to "just Google it" (DuckDuckGo, though). I'd like to be able to grab my bike and go to where I need to go in a safe way, not spend 20 minutes mapping out where I can do so without the risk of getting killed. Before the era of Just Googling It, you would have to figure out that sort of stuff on your own anyway. It's not like most drivers rely on GPS to get around the city because they have enough roads to use and figure that out...the same should be true for cyclists. Sans making a few wrong turns, it should be safe to ride on major roads to get to where you need to go.
I don't drive a lot and when I do I usually do just Google it.
There is another point that no one has mentioned, though. Unless you have a bike phone mount, turn-by-turn directions aren't that convenient when pedalling around. (They're also kind of unsafe when driving around unless you have a car mount, but how many drivers care about that?)
Also Kitchener in particular has quite a few wayfinding signs now, but so does Waterloo, if you are on the network (Iron Horse, Spur Line, Laurel Creek)...
(01-21-2022, 09:42 AM)jamincan Wrote: I've said in the past and a still believe that probably the biggest bang for the buck improvement the region and city could make for active transportation is identifying a minimum network of safe routes from various sectors on the city and then signing those really well and addressing obstacles along them. There are some areas that are worse off than others (and Hidden Valley is one, in my opinion, though also very low priority), but there are the bones of a pretty decent safe network that some targeted spending could make highly effective. Discoverability remains a huge problem, and uptake in active transportation is going to be hindered until it is properly addressed.
Grid, yes.
Not sure that amalgamation would help with this. Depends on if it's the Regional approach or the City approaches that win out.
This! So much this! Every time someone suggests amalgamation would make things better, I just imagine how bad it would be if regional engineers were in charge of everything in the city.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - dtkvictim - 01-21-2022
(01-19-2022, 09:36 PM)ac3r Wrote: But I'd like to live in a city where I don't have to "just Google it" (DuckDuckGo, though). I'd like to be able to grab my bike and go to where I need to go in a safe way, not spend 20 minutes mapping out where I can do so without the risk of getting killed. Before the era of Just Googling It, you would have to figure out that sort of stuff on your own anyway. It's not like most drivers rely on GPS to get around the city because they have enough roads to use and figure that out...the same should be true for cyclists. Sans making a few wrong turns, it should be safe to ride on major roads to get to where you need to go.
I'm not sure why you're getting flak for this... I cycle quite a bit, and I'm constantly researching Google Maps and the BikeKitchener map before going anywhere new (and usually deciding I won't be going there...). People that, rightfully, have high standards for protected cycling infrastructure will still find mobility to be extremely limited outside of the Iron Horse/Laurel/Spur Line trails.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - jamincan - 01-21-2022
Was anyone actually suggesting amalgamation? I'm a little bit mystified where that came from.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - dtkvictim - 01-21-2022
Bylaw question: I have a bike with 16 inch wheels (folding bike), can I legally ride it on sidewalks in both Kitchener and Waterloo? Or is there something outside of the wheel size exception that would still make it illegal?
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - plam - 01-22-2022
(01-21-2022, 10:04 PM)jamincan Wrote: Was anyone actually suggesting amalgamation? I'm a little bit mystified where that came from.
There was a comment from ac3r: "I think this is one thing that hinders a lot of progress here. Having 3 cities with 3 governments has its benefits, but when it comes to working together to get things like protected bike lanes and MUTs that connect people and places on a regional scale, each city has its own priorities and plans. Kitchener seems to be the most progressive when compared to Waterloo and Cambridge...those cities just feel like they're stuck in a rut in comparison. It'd be nice if they could better negotiate transportation needs together. "
Not actually suggesting amalgamation; the actual suggestion here would be good, but amalgamation would be something that someone might say and would likely be bad given what we have observed at length at Regional level here.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 01-22-2022
(01-21-2022, 10:04 PM)jamincan Wrote: Was anyone actually suggesting amalgamation? I'm a little bit mystified where that came from.
I've seen it suggested in several circles, and once or twice even as a solution to our cycling/ped infra problems.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 01-22-2022
(01-21-2022, 10:06 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: Bylaw question: I have a bike with 16 inch wheels (folding bike), can I legally ride it on sidewalks in both Kitchener and Waterloo? Or is there something outside of the wheel size exception that would still make it illegal?
Umm....
Complicated answer but keep in mind IANAL.
Of course the intention of the sidewalk cycling bylaw is that kids can cycle on the sidewalk. The bylaw mentions wheel size because our pols are bad at making laws??? The effect is AFAIK yes, an adult riding a bicycle with small wheels (say a folding bike) is fits within the bylaw, but a taller 11 year old riding a bike with 20 inch wheels (perfectly possible) wouldn't be permitted. I.e., our bylaw is fundamentally broken and badly written.
The bylaw is not enforced in practice, and I mean, ever. The only place you MIGHT get ticketed for riding on the "sidewalk" is downtown, and even then, it would only be by WRPS, who AFAIK won't ticket you for the bylaw, because that's not their general purview, but will, I suspect, find something else to ticket you for, probably something like, riding in a crosswalk.
Which brings me to my other note, riding in a crosswalk is illegal for all ages and wheel sizes, which kinda makes a lot of our MUTs completely broken. And yet they function, in that they are heavily used by people on bicycles every single day, with nobody getting ticketed. Basically everyone who cycles down the IHT is breaking the law a dozen times a day at least.
The summary is that, in my experience, like a lot of things I'm starting to realize. There is "the law" (or bylaw) and then there is reality, and they are very different. As an adult, outside the downtown cores, ride on the sidewalk if it makes you feel safer, as long as you are courteous (and frankly, privileged and white) you'll not run into any problems.
And yes, I fucking hate that---not people cycling on the sidewalk, I don't mind that so much as long as they are courteous, although I'm a little annoyed when there is a protected bike lane---I hate our broken justice system.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ac3r - 01-22-2022
(01-22-2022, 01:09 AM)plam Wrote:(01-21-2022, 10:04 PM)jamincan Wrote: Was anyone actually suggesting amalgamation? I'm a little bit mystified where that came from.
There was a comment from ac3r: "I think this is one thing that hinders a lot of progress here. Having 3 cities with 3 governments has its benefits, but when it comes to working together to get things like protected bike lanes and MUTs that connect people and places on a regional scale, each city has its own priorities and plans. Kitchener seems to be the most progressive when compared to Waterloo and Cambridge...those cities just feel like they're stuck in a rut in comparison. It'd be nice if they could better negotiate transportation needs together. "
Not actually suggesting amalgamation; the actual suggestion here would be good, but amalgamation would be something that someone might say and would likely be bad given what we have observed at length at Regional level here.
Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting amalgamation of the cities and townships into 1, rather that it would be great if there was better communication between the Region of Waterloo itself, the 3 cities as well as the townships to develop stuff like this. Get some sort of board that can cooperate together to plan interconnected routes better, decide upon design standards so there is coherence, launch projects around the same time, launch a good mapping service and improved signage and all of that stuff. The region, each city and the townships all work on this sort of stuff in their own way and at their own pace (at least as far as I know) which can be messy and result in a weird patchwork of things. It works, but it could be a lot cleaner.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 01-22-2022
(01-22-2022, 06:33 PM)ac3r Wrote:(01-22-2022, 01:09 AM)plam Wrote: There was a comment from ac3r: "I think this is one thing that hinders a lot of progress here. Having 3 cities with 3 governments has its benefits, but when it comes to working together to get things like protected bike lanes and MUTs that connect people and places on a regional scale, each city has its own priorities and plans. Kitchener seems to be the most progressive when compared to Waterloo and Cambridge...those cities just feel like they're stuck in a rut in comparison. It'd be nice if they could better negotiate transportation needs together. "
Not actually suggesting amalgamation; the actual suggestion here would be good, but amalgamation would be something that someone might say and would likely be bad given what we have observed at length at Regional level here.
Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting amalgamation of the cities and townships into 1, rather that it would be great if there was better communication between the Region of Waterloo itself, the 3 cities as well as the townships to develop stuff like this. Get some sort of board that can cooperate together to plan interconnected routes better, decide upon design standards so there is coherence, launch projects around the same time, launch a good mapping service and improved signage and all of that stuff. The region, each city and the townships all work on this sort of stuff in their own way and at their own pace (at least as far as I know) which can be messy and result in a weird patchwork of things. It works, but it could be a lot cleaner.
This is the regions job, but unfortunately they are hostile to cycling on regional roads. But I think the cities have done a decent job, I can’t think of any major routes which are broken on city boundaries.
The most frustrating one right now might be Union St but it isn’t built yet.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Bytor - 01-24-2022
(01-16-2022, 07:35 PM)Bytor Wrote: Hey, I would really appreciate it if those of you with Twitter accounts would go vote on my poll about what percentage of Kitchener residents live less than 7km from their place of work.
https://twitter.com/Bytor/status/1482829843763023874
The poll arose of out people claiming on r/kitchener that a bike commute was an hour long and that was why more people didn't do it.
I'd like to see what people think this percentage of easily bikeable commutes in Kitchener would be, so sharing the tweet would also be appreciated.
OK. So the correct answer to the poll was the second one, "XX% >= 50%" because 53% of Kitchener residents live less than 7km from their place of work.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ac3r - 01-25-2022
Looks like someone stepped up and decided to build an app for cyclists to help them find their way. This could be much better than having to dig through the city websites to find archaic PDF files and GIS maps: https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2022/01/25/made-in-waterloo-bike-app-will-provide-hyperlocal-route-information.html