(01-18-2022, 11:39 PM)ac3r Wrote: In that case, I guess I'm clueless about MUTs here. The cities/region don't publish much info about these sort of things nor do I have time to waste in my life to map bike routes. I imagine if you polled everyone in Waterloo Region how they could get from A to B on a bike, scooter or footpath in the most efficient and safest way, the majority wouldn't have a clue.

That said, they should be building more and more of them if they truly care about cycling etc and promote them via press releases, news articles, useful signage (distance, average time to use etc). Other cities do this but we haven't caught on to all the nuances, for the most part.

(01-19-2022, 10:44 AM)the_conestoga_guy Wrote:

(01-18-2022, 11:39 PM)ac3r Wrote: In that case, I guess I'm clueless about MUTs here. The cities/region don't publish much info about these sort of things nor do I have time to waste in my life to map bike routes. I imagine if you polled everyone in Waterloo Region how they could get from A to B on a bike, scooter or footpath in the most efficient and safest way, the majority wouldn't have a clue.

That said, they should be building more and more of them if they truly care about cycling etc and promote them via press releases, news articles, useful signage (distance, average time to use etc). Other cities do this but we haven't caught on to all the nuances, for the most part.

Until very recently, I would definitely considered myself to be among this majority. I have since taken an interest in buying a bike to offset some/all of my car trips, and have researched the routes that I'd be required to take to get to my most frequented destinations (job, school, grocery store, etc). We're a two-car household, so I'd love to be able to drop one in favour of something that is cheaper. 

The Region, at least compared to my hometown of London/St Thomas, is a utopia of progressive transportation policies. Unfortunately for me, my home hasn't yet been safely hooked up to the cycling network. I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'll just go about my life as usual until the day comes that I can finally make that shift.

Actually, Dan's proposed cycling corridor along Fredrick/Benton would include my home. So I really appreciate the advocacy! It inspired me to also reach out to the powers that be to endorse it as well!

(01-19-2022, 11:10 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: KW certainly has been better positioned, but we have our own challenges...the regional/city split is weird.

(01-18-2022, 03:15 PM)ac3r Wrote: Now, if we could only improve the cycling infrastructure here... While I don't regularly live in Waterloo Region (although own a house here), I am here very often. I never, ever feel safe biking anywhere that I happen to need to go. The only time I get my bike out is to do occasional trips to a store or for some exercise on trails. But to get downtown from my house? Hell naw, it's suicidal. It's great we're improving it in certain places, but I want to see it expanded all over the city. It'd be so easy to do.

(01-18-2022, 03:22 PM)Acitta Wrote: Where is your house? I have ridden all over the Region for the last 20 years, and there are very few places that I feel unsafe. Having cycled in Montreal in the '70s, Toronto and York Region in the 70s, 80s and 90s, Waterloo Region is the best of all (though Montreal has improved considerably since I lived there).

(01-18-2022, 04:34 PM)ac3r Wrote:

(01-18-2022, 03:22 PM)Acitta Wrote: Where is your house? I have ridden all over the Region for the last 20 years, and there are very few places that I feel unsafe. Having cycled in Montreal in the '70s, Toronto and York Region in the 70s, 80s and 90s, Waterloo Region is the best of all (though Montreal has improved considerably since I lived there).

True, compared to Toronto or Montréal we have it good in every regard despite what people think, but those are huge cities and public transit is great which offsets that. They have great subway networks, streetcars (at least in Toronto) and buses where you can bring your bus on to get around. Here...we've got an LRT that you can basically bike faster than it moves for most of it, which is annoying. I can't complain about the buses, they're decent. But as for protected bike lanes, we could improve them much more which I hope we do to connect distant areas of the city. A lot of the improvements we've made have been focused on the core or urban corridor, but there's a lot of other places left unserviced. I know we tried a pilot project on Westmount (the traffic cones which pissed off every driver in the city) but that was so extremely divisive and I can't remember if we approved separated bike lanes to replace them.

(01-18-2022, 08:26 PM)ac3r Wrote: It's certainly possible to get from any point A to B to C destination by whatever mode of transport one wishes to use here, but the main problem is that it's rather time consuming. In many cases it's not safe, or certain parts of a route one may use are not maintained in winter. Recreational cycling is one thing, but when someone is wishing to choose it as a mode of transportation to get to work or run errands, time is a consideration.

This is where I think better MUT or separated bike lanes can come into play. Get some good paved trails and separated bike lanes where they are needed - maintain them in the winter - which connect all sorts of different areas of the city...and you can basically start to create MUT "expressways". That is, they have their own rights of way (i.e. trails) or protected lanes (separated bike lanes) that allow people to have more confidence in cycling around the region without having to worry about someone on a cell phone flattening them into a pancake. Adding on to the term "expressway" regarding bikes, it'd also be awesome to consider and use either tunnels or bridges in order to allow users to pass streets without having to stop or risk themselves. This is a very common feature in European cities.

(01-18-2022, 11:39 PM)ac3r Wrote: In that case, I guess I'm clueless about MUTs here. The cities/region don't publish much info about these sort of things nor do I have time to waste in my life to map bike routes. I imagine if you polled everyone in Waterloo Region how they could get from A to B on a bike, scooter or footpath in the most efficient and safest way, the majority wouldn't have a clue.

That said, they should be building more and more of them if they truly care about cycling etc and promote them via press releases, news articles, useful signage (distance, average time to use etc). Other cities do this but we haven't caught on to all the nuances, for the most part.

(01-20-2022, 01:23 PM)Bytor Wrote: Cambridge, Kitchener, Waterloo and the Region all publish maps showing their cycling paths — trails, MUTs, and bike lanes. Just Google it.

(01-20-2022, 09:18 PM)ac3r Wrote:

(01-20-2022, 01:23 PM)Bytor Wrote: Cambridge, Kitchener, Waterloo and the Region all publish maps showing their cycling paths — trails, MUTs, and bike lanes. Just Google it.

But I'd like to live in a city where I don't have to "just Google it" (DuckDuckGo, though). I'd like to be able to grab my bike and go to where I need to go in a safe way, not spend 20 minutes mapping out where I can do so without the risk of getting killed. Before the era of Just Googling It, you would have to figure out that sort of stuff on your own anyway. It's not like most drivers rely on GPS to get around the city because they have enough roads to use and figure that out...the same should be true for cyclists. Sans making a few wrong turns, it should be safe to ride on major roads to get to where you need to go.

(01-20-2022, 09:18 PM)ac3r Wrote:

(01-20-2022, 01:23 PM)Bytor Wrote: Cambridge, Kitchener, Waterloo and the Region all publish maps showing their cycling paths — trails, MUTs, and bike lanes. Just Google it.

But I'd like to live in a city where I don't have to "just Google it" (DuckDuckGo, though). I'd like to be able to grab my bike and go to where I need to go in a safe way, not spend 20 minutes mapping out where I can do so without the risk of getting killed. Before the era of Just Googling It, you would have to figure out that sort of stuff on your own anyway.

(01-18-2022, 03:15 PM)ac3r Wrote: I never, ever feel safe biking anywhere that I happen to need to go. The only time I get my bike out is to do occasional trips to a store or for some exercise on trails. But to get downtown from my house? Hell naw, it's suicidal.

(01-18-2022, 11:39 PM)ac3r Wrote: In that case, I guess I'm clueless about MUTs here. The cities/region don't publish much info about these sort of things nor do I have time to waste in my life to map bike routes. I imagine if you polled everyone in Waterloo Region how they could get from A to B on a bike, scooter or footpath in the most efficient and safest way, the majority wouldn't have a clue.

(01-20-2022, 09:39 PM)ac3r Wrote: It's almost like it can be all of the above. The maps are antiquated, the routes are often very not safe and there is not sufficient signage that simply says "go here". I'm not a religious bike freak, I just want to get around the city on one when I feel like it without needing to take out life insurance, so it would be cool to not have to Google things and plan out an entire route so I am not hurt. Considering there are so many bike people on here, I'm not sure why you guys are so pissy about my complaints. A pile of bricks on Joseph Street got you guys going for weeks, so I'm not sure why my complaints seem invalid.

(01-20-2022, 09:39 PM)ac3r Wrote: It's almost like it can be all of the above. The maps are antiquated, the routes are often very not safe and there is not sufficient signage that simply says "go here". I'm not a religious bike freak, I just want to get around the city on one when I feel like it without needing to take out life insurance, so it would be cool to not have to Google things and plan out an entire route so I am not hurt. Considering there are so many bike people on here, I'm not sure why you guys are so pissy about my complaints. A pile of bricks on Joseph Street got you guys going for weeks, so I'm not sure why my complaints seem invalid.

(01-21-2022, 01:01 AM)Acitta Wrote:

(01-20-2022, 09:39 PM)ac3r Wrote: It's almost like it can be all of the above. The maps are antiquated, the routes are often very not safe and there is not sufficient signage that simply says "go here". I'm not a religious bike freak, I just want to get around the city on one when I feel like it without needing to take out life insurance, so it would be cool to not have to Google things and plan out an entire route so I am not hurt. Considering there are so many bike people on here, I'm not sure why you guys are so pissy about my complaints. A pile of bricks on Joseph Street got you guys going for weeks, so I'm not sure why my complaints seem invalid.

Speaking for myself, I have been cycling for nearly 50 years and have never owned a car. I am used to cycling on streets with all kinds of traffic in big cities and small, so not much bothers me, so I find it strange when someone is terrified by Waterloo Region traffic. I cycled on Victoria St. North many times without the benefit of the recently built MUTS.  I am not even bothered much by the "bike lane of death" on Northfield, though it is not for the faint of heart. The region is getting much better with the building of bike lanes and MUTS. We need to keep the pressure on for more of that, but I guess that I am more comfortable in situations that others find intolerable. One thing that I notice, is that too many cyclists don't have a mirror on their bike or helmet. Having a good mirror helps to keep one from being surprised by a car suddenly passing within inches of you, which reduces the stress of cycling in traffic.

(01-21-2022, 09:42 AM)jamincan Wrote:

(01-20-2022, 09:39 PM)ac3r Wrote: It's almost like it can be all of the above. The maps are antiquated, the routes are often very not safe and there is not sufficient signage that simply says "go here". I'm not a religious bike freak, I just want to get around the city on one when I feel like it without needing to take out life insurance, so it would be cool to not have to Google things and plan out an entire route so I am not hurt. Considering there are so many bike people on here, I'm not sure why you guys are so pissy about my complaints. A pile of bricks on Joseph Street got you guys going for weeks, so I'm not sure why my complaints seem invalid.

I've said in the past and a still believe that probably the biggest bang for the buck improvement the region and city could make for active transportation is identifying a minimum network of safe routes from various sectors on the city and then signing those really well and addressing obstacles along them. There are some areas that are worse off than others (and Hidden Valley is one, in my opinion, though also very low priority), but there are the bones of a pretty decent safe network that some targeted spending could make highly effective. Discoverability remains a huge problem, and uptake in active transportation is going to be hindered until it is properly addressed.