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+--- Thread: Cycling in Waterloo Region (/showthread.php?tid=186)
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RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - plam - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 09:39 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:(07-27-2020, 09:27 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: And while I usually notice a lot of bad motor vehicle driving, the worst thing I saw recently was a pair of people on bicycles coming right at me immediately after I made a perfectly legal right turn on red.
To be fair...there is no requirement to turn right on red. AFAIK.
If you don't do it the people behind you will hate you. There is strong social pressure to do it. I hate doing it.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 09:39 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: To be fair...there is no requirement to turn right on red. AFAIK.
I think that basic courtesy requires making an effort to proceed, without doing anything unsafe. There is room for individual variation in what one considers safe, but simply sitting there like a bump on a log is not appropriate. Similarly, I wouldn’t consider it appropriate to do 10km/h all the way down King St. just because one doesn’t feel safe driving faster — there are others who need to use the roads too.
Another similar situation exists with moving into the intersection when turning left — I consider it incorrect to sit behind the stop line and then continue to sit there when the light turns red. One has an obligation to enter the intersection (assuming there are no other left-turning vehicles already in the intersection) and then make the turn when it is safe to do so.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - dtkvictim - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 06:51 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:I suspect most (or at least a significant portion) of the people on this forum are in favour of banning right on red completely. You may feel differently, but some view preserving the safety of others (specifically where the law gives them the freedom to make that judgement) at the expense of your convenience to be the courteous thing to do.(07-27-2020, 09:39 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: To be fair...there is no requirement to turn right on red. AFAIK.
I think that basic courtesy requires making an effort to proceed, without doing anything unsafe. There is room for individual variation in what one considers safe, but simply sitting there like a bump on a log is not appropriate. Similarly, I wouldn’t consider it appropriate to do 10km/h all the way down King St. just because one doesn’t feel safe driving faster — there are others who need to use the roads too.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 06:51 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:(07-27-2020, 09:39 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: To be fair...there is no requirement to turn right on red. AFAIK.
I think that basic courtesy requires making an effort to proceed, without doing anything unsafe. There is room for individual variation in what one considers safe, but simply sitting there like a bump on a log is not appropriate. Similarly, I wouldn’t consider it appropriate to do 10km/h all the way down King St. just because one doesn’t feel safe driving faster — there are others who need to use the roads too.
Another similar situation exists with moving into the intersection when turning left — I consider it incorrect to sit behind the stop line and then continue to sit there when the light turns red. One has an obligation to enter the intersection (assuming there are no other left-turning vehicles already in the intersection) and then make the turn when it is safe to do so.
I was neither speaking of social pressures, nor do I concern myself with them. Plenty of drivers find it a 'basic courtesy' to drive at least 45km/h through the park, I still follow the law and drive 30km/h, I get plenty of hate as a result.
In term of right on red, I will sometimes, but only when I can see to turn without blocking the crosswalk.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - plam - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 07:38 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: In term of right on red, I will sometimes, but only when I can see to turn without blocking the crosswalk.
What's the best is when you're waiting in a car at a light to go straight and someone drives around you to turn right at the red. (Fischer-Hallman and Keats Way).
Of course people get really impatient when you are waiting to go straight at a red on a bike and they would like to turn right.
Really, there shouldn't be right turn on red.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 09:09 PM)plam Wrote:(07-27-2020, 07:38 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: In term of right on red, I will sometimes, but only when I can see to turn without blocking the crosswalk.
What's the best is when you're waiting in a car at a light to go straight and someone drives around you to turn right at the red. (Fischer-Hallman and Keats Way).
Of course people get really impatient when you are waiting to go straight at a red on a bike and they would like to turn right.
Really, there shouldn't be right turn on red.
I entirely agree!
I used to move over for folks turning right on red when cycling...
Then I had the two drivers behind both squeeze past dangerously going straight when the light turned, trapping me away from the right hand side....
Now I don't...
There is no winning...anyone who thinks following the rules would make us safe is kidding themselves.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - tomh009 - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 07:38 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I was neither speaking of social pressures, nor do I concern myself with them. Plenty of drivers find it a 'basic courtesy' to drive at least 45km/h through the park, I still follow the law and drive 30km/h, I get plenty of hate as a result.
I drive probably 30-35 km/h through Victoria Park, and I do it relatively often. I haven't noticed any hate. What should I be looking for?
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - panamaniac - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 10:46 PM)Ttomh009 Wrote:(07-27-2020, 07:38 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I was neither speaking of social pressures, nor do I concern myself with them. Plenty of drivers find it a 'basic courtesy' to drive at least 45km/h through the park, I still follow the law and drive 30km/h, I get plenty of hate as a result.
I drive probably 30-35 km/h through Victoria Park, and I do it relatively often. I haven't noticed any hate. What should I be looking for?
Repeated honking and vigorous gesticulation involving, but not limited to, the middle digit ...
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-27-2020
(07-27-2020, 11:01 PM)panamaniac Wrote:(07-27-2020, 10:46 PM)Ttomh009 Wrote: I drive probably 30-35 km/h through Victoria Park, and I do it relatively often. I haven't noticed any hate. What should I be looking for?
Repeated honking and vigorous gesticulation involving, but not limited to, the middle digit ...
Also, if the car behind you has driven up into your back seat, this is an indication they are unhappy with your current speed.
I see very few people doing 30km/h...it's almost hard to in our city since we are used to going so much faster....it's pretty easy to get it up to 38, 39, 40, 41, by the next intersection, and while some will still tailgate you at those speeds, I'd expect there to be much less honking or other gesticulations.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - jamincan - 07-28-2020
There's a neighbourhood road that is signed at 40 kph that I regularly use. What I have noticed is that a surprising number of people (like, maybe 40-50%?) actually go pretty close to the posted limit, maybe going 5 over. The vast majority would be going under 50 by my estimation. While only a minority is actually going the posted speed, since they've posted a reduced speed limit, it has definitely successfully reduced the average speed overall, which is the main goal at the end of the day.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - tomh009 - 07-28-2020
(07-27-2020, 11:01 PM)panamaniac Wrote:(07-27-2020, 10:46 PM)Ttomh009 Wrote: I drive probably 30-35 km/h through Victoria Park, and I do it relatively often. I haven't noticed any hate. What should I be looking for?
Repeated honking and vigorous gesticulation involving, but not limited to, the middle digit ...
OK, I have not experienced that. Maybe different times of day, or just the luck of the draw.
I don't drive exactly 30 km/h, it's pretty hard steadily maintaining such a slow speed (requires very gentle application of the accelerator pedal), but 30-35 km/h is pretty typical for me.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-28-2020
(07-28-2020, 08:14 AM)jamincan Wrote: There's a neighbourhood road that is signed at 40 kph that I regularly use. What I have noticed is that a surprising number of people (like, maybe 40-50%?) actually go pretty close to the posted limit, maybe going 5 over. The vast majority would be going under 50 by my estimation. While only a minority is actually going the posted speed, since they've posted a reduced speed limit, it has definitely successfully reduced the average speed overall, which is the main goal at the end of the day.
It absolutely depends on context...a narrow residential street with obstructions in the boulevard could easily encourage speeds of 40km/h regardless of the limit.
A massive wide road with huge shoulders, a massive clear zone, and a centre median could encourage speeds of 90-100 km/h regardless of the speed limit.
It's a shame so many of our engineers don't get this...(yes, I'm looking at you, engineers who designed Wellington St.)
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - tomh009 - 07-28-2020
Wellington St was originally intended to become a major thoroughfare, was it not?
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - KevinL - 07-28-2020
(07-28-2020, 11:24 AM)tomh009 Wrote: Wellington St was originally intended to become a major thoroughfare, was it not?
Correct, it was to be the new Highway 7 before the project was expressway-ified.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 07-28-2020
(07-28-2020, 12:30 PM)KevinL Wrote:(07-28-2020, 11:24 AM)tomh009 Wrote: Wellington St was originally intended to become a major thoroughfare, was it not?
Correct, it was to be the new Highway 7 before the project was expressway-ified.
And indeed, travelling east from the Wellington St. interchange, one travels along Shirley Ave. and Bingemans Centre Dr. on a road that is amply sufficient to handle traffic to Guelph, at least as far as the bend where it turns across the tracks and meets Victoria St. But we’ve discussed this extensively just recently.