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Cycling in Waterloo Region - Printable Version

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RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 06-12-2018

(06-11-2018, 10:42 PM)KevinL Wrote: Under the HTA, yellow signs are advisory, not enforceable.

Thank you Kevin. What is the purpose of the “Sharrow” markings?


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 06:55 AM)Canard Wrote:
(06-11-2018, 10:42 PM)KevinL Wrote: Under the HTA, yellow signs are advisory, not enforceable.

Thank you Kevin. What is the purpose of the “Sharrow” markings?

The HTA doesn't mention sharrows, but they are found in the MTO Traffic Manual Book 18, where it states:

"Sharrows are intended to indicate to both motorists and cyclists the appropriate line of travel for cyclists. .... Where shared lanes are too narrow for this, the sharrows are placed in the centre of the lane."

Of course according to WRPS, they're "the lane is too narrow, so be sure to ride in the door zone and encourage cars to squeeze past dangerously" markings.

Frankly, at this point, I'm considering taking the bus into work.  Between the 1 hour of cyclist hate on FB, and the Police actively endangering my life by encouraging it and telling motorists that I'm breaking the law by following the MTO guidelines, I'm not feeling particularly safe right now.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 06-12-2018

But Dan, we are a Gold Star cycling community!

GOLD STAR


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - plam - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 09:17 AM)Canard Wrote: But Dan, we are a Gold Star cycling community!

GOLD STAR

I love how the sign on King St about that is next to the not-a-bike-lane.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - timc - 06-12-2018

Ugh. The Gold Level bike-friendly thing really bugs me. How are we supposed to get any better if we are already "Gold"?


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 10:47 AM)timc Wrote: Ugh. The Gold Level bike-friendly thing really bugs me. How are we supposed to get any better if we are already "Gold"?

There are platinum and diamond levels as well...

But yeah, it's a bit silly.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Viewfromthe42 - 06-12-2018

It's one of those awkward things. You want to reward a city for trying to do better, and make them feel proud of doing better, so there are low bars to clear to get positive feedback. But you also recognize that to do real good, you have to go so much further with the efforts, so you both need higher levels, as well as ways of making a city see that they have to go that way and keep working. More than what you do in a given year, we should be rewarding what fundamental changes are made. It's more important to build a plan to make a minimum grid, than to build 1km of the best cycling infrastructure imaginable.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Pheidippides - 06-12-2018

I'm not sure how to interpret WRPS' comments. Sharrows are literally supposed to provide the location on where the safest location to ride is on a particular street (away from the curb and obstacles).


Does that mean if I am not riding my bike literally on the curb at all times (which seems to be the definition of "as far to the right as practicable" in WRPS' view) they can ticket me?

Even taking sharrows out of the equation their advice does not make sense. There are so many situations where you can't just stay as far to the right all the time.

Maybe there will be clarification from the Chief himself:
"Our next #WRPSTalks is coming up soon featuring @Chief_BLarkin! Tune in and bring your questions on June 26 at 6 p.m. We will be live on #Facebook, #Twitter and #YouTube! You can also direct message us questions ahead of time!"

Do the police drive their cruisers right next on the curb? No, that wouldn't be safe - there is no margin for error there; they use the middle of the lane. They leave a buffer to their left AND right. Always leave yourself an "out" I believe is the language I recall from driving school.

A standard regional lane is 3.35m.
A police cruiser is 1.90m.
That leaves 1.45m unused lane width or 0.73m to the right of the car which represents a buffer of 38% of the vehicle's width.

A standard bicycle is 1.1m.
38% of that width is 0.42m.
So at an absolute minimum cyclists should not be expected to be within nearly 0.5m of the curb or any obstacle.


I am sure it is coincidental and observational bias/priming, but it was a particularly harrowing cycle commute today dealing with inattentive and aggressive drivers - twice squeezed to the curb (once on Park and once on West) when trying to take the lane.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 01:29 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: ...

 their advice does not make sense. There are so many situations where you can't just stay as far to the right all the time.
...

That's a great summary right there.  Their advice does not make sense, and it encourages drivers to behaviour dangerously towards cyclists who are being safe. 

It's as counterproductive as advice could be.  And just in case you thought perhaps they just didn't explain it well, they've now twice doubled down and explained, "yes, you cyclists should be riding in the gutter, yes, even in the door zone, yes, even on sharrows, yes, if you impede a car's progress you are in the wrong, you hear that drivers".


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - KevinT - 06-12-2018

I saw a video from CAA on cycling safety yesterday that showed two different sorts of sharrows, wide ones like we see on King through DTK and narrow ones used beside the curb when the road lane is quite wide and its safe for cars to pass bikes near the curb.  I wanted to post it here but wasn't in a position to do so at the time, and now I can't find it for looking.  I don't recall if it was Facebook, Twitter, or YouTube where I saw it, but my searches on all three today have come up blank.  :-(


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 01:29 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: A standard bicycle is 1.1m.

Huh


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 02:15 PM)KevinT Wrote: I saw a video from CAA on cycling safety yesterday that showed two different sorts of sharrows, wide ones like we see on King through DTK and narrow ones used beside the curb when the road lane is quite wide and its safe for cars to pass bikes near the curb.  I wanted to post it here but wasn't in a position to do so at the time, and now I can't find it for looking.  I don't recall if it was Facebook, Twitter, or YouTube where I saw it, but my searches on all three today have come up blank.  :-(

Omg omg. I have the most amazing ones to show you. I laugh out loud every time I go by. They’re like, sharrow EXTREME: Zeller Drive at Wild Meadow St.

(Street view and Satellite isn’t up to date; I’ll try and stop by and take a photo. It’s truly epic.)


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 02:15 PM)KevinT Wrote: I saw a video from CAA on cycling safety yesterday that showed two different sorts of sharrows, wide ones like we see on King through DTK and narrow ones used beside the curb when the road lane is quite wide and its safe for cars to pass bikes near the curb.  I wanted to post it here but wasn't in a position to do so at the time, and now I can't find it for looking.  I don't recall if it was Facebook, Twitter, or YouTube where I saw it, but my searches on all three today have come up blank.  :-(

The MTO's Book 18 describing cycling facilites does describe two positioning for sharrows...one is near the curb, but approximately 1 meter out, which is the recommendation when the lane is wide (which I strongly dislike, if the lane is too narrow for a bike lane, then it's too narrow to safely share...almost by definition...in fact it is that width of lane that I find most dangerous, cars will almost always force their way through, and will rarely be able to give one meter passing distance).

The same book also describes placing sharrows in the middle of the road where the lanes are too narrow to share, or where there are obstacles (car doors for example) to the right.

Both of those are the same size/shape white paint bike symbol with the double arrow.  The larger green things we have on King St. are a Kitchener innovation (well they're probably elsewhere too, but I've only seen them here) called "super-sharrows"...which are just bigger more colourful sharrows. (Edit: Apparently SF has them too: https://www.sfmta.com/blog/how-sfmta-invented-%E2%80%93-and-named-%E2%80%93-bike-sharrow)

Make no mistake, WRPS knows this, they're choosing to disagree with it and give contrary advice.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 10:54 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(06-12-2018, 10:47 AM)timc Wrote: Ugh. The Gold Level bike-friendly thing really bugs me. How are we supposed to get any better if we are already "Gold"?

There are platinum and diamond levels as well...

But yeah, it's a bit silly.

And once we get those, we can move on to latinum, duranium, dilithium, and even unobtanium!


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - KevinT - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 02:28 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(06-12-2018, 10:54 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: There are platinum and diamond levels as well...

But yeah, it's a bit silly.

And once we get those, we can move on to latinum, duranium, dilithium, and even unobtanium!

Just as long as we never reach ad nauseam.