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+--- Thread: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan (/showthread.php?tid=1588)
GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - danbrotherston - 07-01-2021
Someone just posted this plan:
https://www.ontario.ca/page/towards-greater-golden-horseshoe-transportation-plan-discussion-paper
As the first public step in releasing a transportation plan.
So far, not too many details, certainly more than a little transit proposed.
On the flip side, they're also proposing expanding virtually every highway in the region.
In 2021...
*sigh*.
Well, at least we can provide feedback begging them to stop building roads, then they can ignore it.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - jeffster - 07-02-2021
(07-01-2021, 10:15 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Someone just posted this plan:
https://www.ontario.ca/page/towards-greater-golden-horseshoe-transportation-plan-discussion-paper
As the first public step in releasing a transportation plan.
So far, not too many details, certainly more than a little transit proposed.
On the flip side, they're also proposing expanding virtually every highway in the region.
In 2021...
*sigh*.
Well, at least we can provide feedback begging them to stop building roads, then they can ignore it.
This is what I noticed:
* Increasing the frequency of local transit service to every 10 minutes, across all urban areas.
* Fully integrating transit fares and services to provide seamless connections across the region.
* Ensuring 24-hour public transportation access to better serve employees of the region’s largest employment nodes.
I mean, this is what you want if you want more people out of cars. Better visions for PT than I have seen in a long time.
24 hour transit and 10 minute lead time, you will have people willing to abandon their cars. As it stands, and as I mentioned before, we lost part of our route, but what is left, reduced Saturday service, no Sunday/holiday service, and slightly reduced weekday service. Even if I wanted to use transit, I couldn’t because the service doesn’t exist for my work hours.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - ac3r - 07-02-2021
(07-02-2021, 06:13 PM)jeffster Wrote: This is what I noticed:
* Increasing the frequency of local transit service to every 10 minutes, across all urban areas.
* Fully integrating transit fares and services to provide seamless connections across the region.
* Ensuring 24-hour public transportation access to better serve employees of the region’s largest employment nodes.
I mean, this is what you want if you want more people out of cars. Better visions for PT than I have seen in a long time.
24 hour transit and 10 minute lead time, you will have people willing to abandon their cars. As it stands, and as I mentioned before, we lost part of our route, but what is left, reduced Saturday service, no Sunday/holiday service, and slightly reduced weekday service. Even if I wanted to use transit, I couldn’t because the service doesn’t exist for my work hours.
We really need this. The fact some of our buses still only have 30 minute headway is ridiculous. Our bus service is awful. What takes 10-15 minutes in a car can take over an hour on the LRT+bus depending on how many transfers you have to take or how many side streets you have to go down.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - creative - 07-03-2021
Increasing frequency will not reduce travel time!
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - jeffster - 07-03-2021
(07-03-2021, 09:37 AM)creative Wrote: Increasing frequency will not reduce travel time!
It should though when you include "waiting" time.
You're at least saving a few minutes from the get go. I want to leave for my destination at 9:00 but the bus comes at 9:30, I have either have to leave earlier 8:50 or wait until 9:20 to leave. How long am I waiting at a transfer stop?
This is especially true if you're using transit for work (or school). In the above, a real example, and my kids high school: class starts at 8:20, his bus route hits the closest stop by our home at 7:45 and 8:15, and a 10 minute bus ride. So he has two options: Go early, wait until school opens to get at 8:00, or be about 5 minutes late every day. 10 minute headway, he goes on the 8:05, gets to school and 8:15, and Bobs your uncle.
One of the big issues with PT is the waiting. And depending on how things roll, you potentially are adding close to (potentially) 60 minutes to your own travel time. With 10 minute headway, that should take it down to no more than close to 20 minutes.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - Acitta - 07-03-2021
(07-03-2021, 09:37 AM)creative Wrote: Increasing frequency will not reduce travel time!A significant factor in travel time in waiting for a bus connection. If you just got off a bus just after your connection left and the next one is not for 30 minutes, that increases your travel time.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - creative - 07-03-2021
I can drive to the Boardwalk in 15 minutes. It would take 45 minutes by transit. This is taking one bus with a stop at the end of our street. When I compare other destinations that I frequent, I get similar results. Increased frequency benefits those already taking transit, which is great. Unfortunately I don’t believe that it will get enough people to give up thier cars. Most people drive for convenience.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - danbrotherston - 07-03-2021
(07-03-2021, 10:31 AM)creative Wrote: I can drive to the Boardwalk in 15 minutes. It would take 45 minutes by transit. This is taking one bus with a stop at the end of our street. When I compare other destinations that I frequent, I get similar results. Increased frequency benefits those already taking transit, which is great. Unfortunately I don’t believe that it will get enough people to give up thier cars. Most people drive for convenience.
You made an absolute statement, which two others have explained how it is wrong, it would be nice to acknowledge them.
It's good you give a specific example of how your statement can be true.
That being said, I think the data disagrees, studies show frequency is extremely important in driving people to use transit. Frequency is freedom.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - creative - 07-03-2021
I just did a quick check on Google maps for reference. I experience real time similar results everyday. Convenience is freedom.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - ijmorlan - 07-03-2021
(07-03-2021, 11:21 AM)creative Wrote: I just did a quick check on Google maps for reference. I experience real time similar results everyday. Convenience is freedom.
Nobody is saying that 10 minute service will suddenly cause everybody to start taking the bus everywhere. I don’t have time to write a treatise on this so, please, put in an effort and try to understand what everybody is telling you. You don’t have to instantly agree, but doing the rest of us the courtesy of trying to understand before criticizing would be much appreciated.
OK, I’ll write one more paragraph: you’re the one who wrote an undoubted falsehood, that increasing frequency will not reduce travel time (it will, for the reasons already outlined by others). So a little more humility and willingness to reconsider would go a long way to being able to participate in the conversation in a friendly way.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - creative - 07-03-2021
Where did I say that increasing frequency would not reduce travel time?
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - danbrotherston - 07-03-2021
(07-03-2021, 12:26 PM)creative Wrote: Where did I say that increasing frequency would not reduce travel time?
*blinks*...are you for real? Literally two hours ago, you said EXACTLY that.
(07-03-2021, 09:37 AM)creative Wrote: Increasing frequency will not reduce travel time!
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - creative - 07-03-2021
I also explain this opinion on a later post. My example was based on taking one bus the entire trip with no transfers.
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - tomh009 - 07-03-2021
(07-03-2021, 10:31 AM)creative Wrote: I can drive to the Boardwalk in 15 minutes. It would take 45 minutes by transit. This is taking one bus with a stop at the end of our street. When I compare other destinations that I frequent, I get similar results.
This is a result of our suburbia-centric urban planning (not just in our region, but almost everywhere in North America).
RE: GGH Transportation and Growth Plan - danbrotherston - 07-03-2021
(07-03-2021, 12:54 PM)creative Wrote: I also explain this opinion on a later post. My example was based on taking one bus the entire trip with no transfers.
First of all, your statement was an absolute statement. As was explained to you, many trips are sped up by more frequent service.
I understand that you gave a personal example which is why I made a very polite and very open comment to you replying that yes, you gave an example where you personally would not see a faster trip, and that's reasonable, but that you should still acknowledge the counter examples to your absolute statement.
I also explained that the data on the subject is clear, frequency does drive ridership. Much of it is not related to trip time, but instead flexibility (which is another aspect of convenience).
But none of that explains why you would say something like "Where did I say that increasing frequency would not reduce travel time?" when you have said EXACTLY that statement without ever recanting or acknowledging that statement is overly broad.