Waterloo Region Connected
ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

+- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com)
+-- Forum: Waterloo Region Works (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Forum: Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit (/showthread.php?tid=14)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - SammyOES - 06-29-2018

But by staying silent if they're completely blameless means they risk losing a lot of future customers.  It just seems weird to me that they're taking it so quietly if they really have no share of the blame themselves.

Edit: I'm not saying they're not blameless either. I just find the idea that they're a defenseless public company strange. But I get that these things are full of politics and internal context that we'll just never know. So just because I don't understand doesn't mean they're not acting totally rationally.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - robdrimmie - 06-29-2018

(06-27-2018, 09:05 PM)Canard Wrote: Still have my fingers crossed opening gets bumped to Spring 2019; absolutely do not want opening day to be in the winter (so gross!!).  Have been dreaming of this day for years, we don't need it ruined by having it happen in a snowstorm.

I disagree with this quite a bit. I'll be a regular user of the LRT in the winter months, and I want it as soon as possible. If the system is ready to go holding off for more months for aesthetic reasons makes no sense to me. Let's get this thing going so I and other users can benefit from it!

Also I like snow, I don't think that ruins it at all. Terribly snowy days are the best days to take advantage of transit. And December is usually often clear and bright.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 06-29-2018

Rob: You can disagree all you want - I shared my personal desire, I didn’t state a fact. I said I want a spring opening, not a winter one. I never suggested simply allowing the system to sit idle - I said I kind of hoped things dragged on which would necessitate pushing the launch back until spring.

Sammy: You got your wish regarding a response:

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local-news/bombardier-responds-to-lrt-concerns-970759

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 06-29-2018

(06-29-2018, 11:45 AM)SammyOES Wrote: But by staying silent if they're completely blameless means they risk losing a lot of future customers.  It just seems weird to me that they're taking it so quietly if they really have no share of the blame themselves.

Edit: I'm not saying they're not blameless either.  I just find the idea that they're a defenseless public company strange.  But I get that these things are full of politics and internal context that we'll just never know.  So just because I don't understand doesn't mean they're not acting totally rationally.

Good comment! I will mention that Bombardier definitely does deserve a significant fraction of the blame — all those production problems were on them, not anybody else — but as far as I can tell this signalling issue is Region/Metrolinx/Ontario. It’s interesting to speculate what would have happened if Bombardier had got its production together on schedule — they would have had complete vehicles in the second half of 2016; would the Region/Metrolinx have moved faster on making sure the signalling was together, or would we have just had a fleet of vehicles sitting in the OMSF with no signalling integration?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - urbd - 06-29-2018

(06-29-2018, 11:56 AM)robdrimmie Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 09:05 PM)Canard Wrote: Still have my fingers crossed opening gets bumped to Spring 2019; absolutely do not want opening day to be in the winter (so gross!!).  Have been dreaming of this day for years, we don't need it ruined by having it happen in a snowstorm.

I disagree with this quite a bit. I'll be a regular user of the LRT in the winter months, and I want it as soon as possible. If the system is ready to go holding off for more months for aesthetic reasons makes no sense to me. Let's get this thing going so I and other users can benefit from it!

Also I like snow, I don't think that ruins it at all. Terribly snowy days are the best days to take advantage of transit. And December is usually often clear and bright.

I 100% agree with you. I live on the line, and I am planning to use the system every single day to go to work and home. I REALLY hope that things don't drag out and system launches as soon as possible, even if it's February 1st. In fact, I wish they would launch the system with trains at any frequency... even one every hour with the iXpress 200 running wouldn't be SO bad.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 06-29-2018

The Region has consistently said that they will not launch with at least 12 trains here. The reason for that is if you launch with anything less, and have bad service frequency, people will give it a try and realize it's crap and never use it again. So, you have one shot to give a good impression - and that's what they're waiting for. And I think it's a good choice.

What I do wish they'd do, though, is have an Open House where they at least give rides up and down the test track on a single train. They did this in Vancouver for the SkyTrain.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 06-29-2018

(06-28-2018, 03:19 PM)timc Wrote: Wait, I know this. The sink was picked first, and the rest of the kitchen was built around it. Sure, the faucet was late, and was found to be defective, but why wasn't the sink installed already?

What? Huh

Let's try this again. Story time!

A company (ML) decides to have 182 houses built by a builder (BBD).

ML: Hey, can you build us 182 houses?
BBD: Sure!
ML: Awesome - can we customize them, too?
BBD: Yep! Just tell us what you'd like.
ML: Great. We need them by 2020.
BBD: No problem.

:: time elapses ::

BBD: Hey, are you going to tell us what you'd like?
ML: No, just build two houses first however you normally would and we'll go through and pick out what we like and what we don't like.
BBD: That's... that's not how this works.
ML: No but just do it
BBD: ...how about you just tell us what you want?
ML: But no because I don't know what I want
BBD: ...
ML: ...

:: meanwhile! Someone else comes along and says they don't like houses, and so they're cutting the project and so only half the houses are needed. ::

:: meanwhile 2! ROW wants some houses. ::

ROW: Hi ML! Can we take 14 of them off you, we'll just buy them from you - is that cool?
ML: Sure!

:: time elapses ::

ROW: Hey BBD, we bought some houses from ML that you're building. Can I haz?
BBD: Hey there, no - they haven't told us what kind of appliances they want, how many floors, what kind of shingles, or anything, really. All they said is they want us to leave some space, because they're inventing a dishwasher from scratch (instead of just buying one).
ROW: Oh...

:: more time elapses ::

BBD: Hey, your friend ROW needs their houses. They've got people moving in. How's that dishwasher coming along?
ML: We haven't started it yet.
BBD (to ROW): Hey, you're on your own for a dishwasher.
ROW: Oh crap.

:: more time elapses ::

ROW: Hey, we found a standard dishwasher that'll fit in the non-standard width you were asked to leave under the counter!
BBD: Awesome.
ROW: Can we put it in ourselves?
BBD: Sure, but it'll void your warranty...
ROW: ... oh. Is it hard?
BBD: Yeah.
ROW: ...can you just do it?
BBD: Sure.

:: more time elapses ::

ML: BBD IS LATE WITH EVERYTHING EVER
ROW: YEAH WHAT THEY SAID. YEAH.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - robdrimmie - 06-29-2018

(06-29-2018, 12:07 PM)Canard Wrote: Rob:  You can disagree all you want - I shared my personal desire, I didn’t state a fact. I said I want a spring opening, not a winter one. I never suggested simply allowing the system to sit idle - I said I kind of hoped things dragged on which would necessitate pushing the launch back until spring.

Sammy: You got your wish regarding a response:

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local-news/bombardier-responds-to-lrt-concerns-970759

I never suggested otherwise. I was sharing my personal opinion. I don't understand why that should trouble you.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - SammyOES - 06-29-2018

I don't really see the Bombardier response as them saying they're not responsible.

There's this sentence: "The vehicles have progressed to the satisfaction of the Region of Waterloo and as such, we will now begin to install the additional equipment necessary to have the required functionality for passenger service", but that doesn't tell us at all about the causes/reasons for the delay up until now. Its ambiguous and could just as easily be read as "We were delayed building the trains, but now we've caught up so we can move to the next phase".

I also get what you're saying about the special equipment, but its not clear to me (and maybe you have other/inside information) that that was THE blocker.

Even in the best case scenario for Bombardier it looks like they deserve some blame because they're a manufacturer signing a major contract and they've agreed to multiple schedules that have been delayed. If there was a dependency that should have been clear from the onset when they agreed to a schedule.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. I definitely agree that it would be nice for the media to actually dig into these stories and tell us more details than the simple story and narrative.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tomh009 - 06-29-2018

(06-29-2018, 01:41 PM)SammyOES Wrote: Even in the best case scenario for Bombardier it looks like they deserve some blame because they're a manufacturer signing a major contract and they've agreed to multiple schedules that have been delayed.  If there was a dependency that should have been clear from the onset when they agreed to a schedule.

The dependency may have been very clear -- but that doesn't mean it was made public.

Bombardier was unquestionably late completing the trains, but they are now effectively done. The remaining delay is Metrolinx, Grandlinq and/or the region.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinT - 06-29-2018

(06-29-2018, 12:40 PM)Canard Wrote: Story time!

A company (ML) decides to have 182 houses built by a builder (BBD)...

Heart

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 06-29-2018

(06-29-2018, 12:40 PM)Canard Wrote:
(06-28-2018, 03:19 PM)timc Wrote: Wait, I know this. The sink was picked first, and the rest of the kitchen was built around it. Sure, the faucet was late, and was found to be defective, but why wasn't the sink installed already?

What?   Huh

Let's try this again.  Story time!

A company (ML) decides to have 182 houses built by a builder (BBD).

[....]

:: more time elapses ::

ML:  BBD IS LATE WITH EVERYTHING EVER
ROW:  YEAH WHAT THEY SAID.  YEAH.

Mostly awesome! I do have to quibble that there should be an intermediate step somewhere where Bombardier says that a work stoppage has delayed things, then that their Mexican foundation contractors are no good, then that they’ve brought in new management, then something about the electrical … point being, I don’t believe it’s disputable that some of the earlier delay is due to Bombardier. But yeah, at this point, everything I’ve seen says it’s Metrolinx/Region.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Square - 06-30-2018

So the Kitchener Today article says we will receive the first of the vehicles that will receive the special equipment installed in Kingston in late August. So will this be the first vehicle to have this equipment?, or will any of the vehicles we have here have this equipment installed here sooner? Thank you.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - trainspotter139 - 07-02-2018

(06-30-2018, 03:00 AM)Square Wrote: So the Kitchener Today article says we will receive the first of the vehicles that will receive the special equipment installed in Kingston in late August.  So will this be the first vehicle to have this equipment?, or will any of the vehicles we have here have this equipment installed here sooner?  Thank you.

It would be the first vehicle delivered from Kingston with the equipment. They'll be installing the equipment on trains here too.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 07-04-2018

Ion trains being checked after welding defect found on Toronto streetcars

Quote:Most of Toronto's new streetcars built by Bombardier must be sent back for repairs, and now Waterloo Region's light rail vehicles are getting a close look.

"The Region of Waterloo is aware that some of the TTC's streetcars require corrective work," TJ Flynn, regional manager of Ion community relations, said Wednesday in an email.

"At this point, Bombardier is examining the region's light rail vehicles to determine if a similar issue is present on our vehicles."

Flynn did not know when the region would find out if its Ion vehicles would also need repairs due to welding problems.