(05-31-2018, 04:38 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote:

(05-31-2018, 03:53 PM)jeffster Wrote: Serious question: Is $62,000 - $65,000 a good pay for this?

1) You're dealing with members of the public.
2) By the looks of it, you might be getting physical with certain members of the public that need help getting on and off LRT.
3) RRSP -- no DB pension.
4) Shift premium? It doesn't mention it. I'm guessing this is the reason for the range? Or is $62-$65,000 because of "steps". As in, $62,000 Step 1, $63,000 Step 2....etc

I ask this, because, GRT drivers probably make close to the same, do the same type of work, but; they have OMERS.  There would also be shift premium for afternoons/evening work and weekend work.

It's competitive. Those are just starting wage rates I would assume. I would also assume there are a number of benefits that aren't defined there.

(05-31-2018, 06:05 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(05-31-2018, 04:38 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: It's competitive. Those are just starting wage rates I would assume. I would also assume there are a number of benefits that aren't defined there.

If even 10% of the applicants are qualified, they are offering too much. ECON 101. Of course, they might not be offering very much too much — it’s not always obvious what price is enough to get enough supply of something.

(05-31-2018, 06:05 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(05-31-2018, 04:38 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: It's competitive. Those are just starting wage rates I would assume. I would also assume there are a number of benefits that aren't defined there.

If even 10% of the applicants are qualified, they are offering too much. ECON 101. Of course, they might not be offering very much too much — it’s not always obvious what price is enough to get enough supply of something.

(05-31-2018, 06:44 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote:

(05-31-2018, 06:05 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: If even 10% of the applicants are qualified, they are offering too much. ECON 101. Of course, they might not be offering very much too much — it’s not always obvious what price is enough to get enough supply of something.

They aren't offering too much. This is a competitive rate for LRV operators when you compare other systems. TTC drivers start at $25/hr for the first 12 months rising to $32/hour after 24 months. $62,000-$65,000 is well within the salary range that is competitive with other transit agencies.

(05-31-2018, 07:52 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(05-31-2018, 06:44 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: They aren't offering too much. This is a competitive rate for LRV operators when you compare other systems. TTC drivers start at $25/hr for the first 12 months rising to $32/hour after 24 months. $62,000-$65,000 is well within the salary range that is competitive with other transit agencies.

By “too much”, I mean more than they need in order to attract sufficient supply of labour. How much other systems pay is irrelevant — our system should pay only what it needs to in order to run properly. That might be less or more than other systems. The transit system is a public service, paid for by taxes, and it should be run economically, not as a way to feed extra money to a tiny number of people employed in its operation.

Having said that, I fully expect that the people running the hiring process know what they are doing. It may be that they expect 99% of the applicants to be unqualified and the way hiring works in this industry is that lots of resumés have to be filtered out. Or maybe they are only a few thousand a year over the salary at which they would get a significantly smaller number of applicants; if so, the extra few thousand a year might be worth it to reduce turnover and ensure they can choose the applicants they want, rather than having to accept everybody who applies who basically meets the criteria. Hard-to-measure intangibles can be very important in hiring.

(05-31-2018, 08:26 PM)Canard Wrote: Nope, you're absolutely right Dan.  The Region pays a fixed price to GrandLinq (Keolis).  They can pay their drivers whatever they want.

People who are paid well for what they do and are treated well are better employees.  Saying "they're paying too much" because they got a massive response to their hiring campaign is ludicrous.

(05-31-2018, 10:25 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(05-31-2018, 08:26 PM)Canard Wrote: Nope, you're absolutely right Dan.  The Region pays a fixed price to GrandLinq (Keolis).  They can pay their drivers whatever they want.

People who are paid well for what they do and are treated well are better employees.  Saying "they're paying too much" because they got a massive response to their hiring campaign is ludicrous.

At some level of massive response it’s ludicrous to argue there is no problem with the salary. There is no reason why “LRT driver” or “government worker” should be massively more attractive than other jobs. Say we post a job and get 100 qualified applicants per position (so, to be fair, not the situation we have here). Don’t you think we should consider paying less? What if we get 1000 qualified applicants per position? 10000? At what point do you think maybe there is no need to pay that much?

Similarly, if there is a low response to the posting, then the fix might be simply to increase the salary.

Except in the short term, gluts and shortages are symptoms of an unwillingness to let prices move to their natural level.

But, as I already noted, it’s not actually clear there is a glut here: if only a tiny fraction of the applicants are qualified, they may need the large applicant pool in order to find enough people. And making the job a little more attractive than it strictly needs to be may pay off in better retention and the ability to be selective, even among qualified applicants.

So what I actually said is much more conditional than people are making it sound. I agree that one cannot conclude that the job is too attractive just from what has been reported in the newspaper. Somebody else made a good point that it’s very easy to apply now; I agree that it would not be surprising to find that many jobs result in large numbers of applications.

(05-31-2018, 04:45 PM)tomh009 Wrote:

(05-31-2018, 03:53 PM)jeffster Wrote: Serious question: Is $62,000 - $65,000 a good pay for this?

1) You're dealing with members of the public.
2) By the looks of it, you might be getting physical with certain members of the public that need help getting on and off LRT.
3) RRSP -- no DB pension.
4) Shift premium? It doesn't mention it. I'm guessing this is the reason for the range? Or is $62-$65,000 because of "steps". As in, $62,000 Step 1, $63,000 Step 2....etc

I ask this, because, GRT drivers probably make close to the same, do the same type of work, but; they have OMERS.  There would also be shift premium for afternoons/evening work and weekend work.

TTC drivers start at around $25/h. That's roughly $52,000 as an annual salary. And I think it's safe to assume that GRT isn't paying significantly higher than TTC. Shift premiums and defined-benefit pensions may make up the difference to the Grandlinq salary range, though.

(05-31-2018, 11:20 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: If they were to pay less than what the TTC pays they wouldn't get applications because people would go to the TTC instead. If you want high quality, qualified applicants you have to pay them like they are high quality, qualified applicants or they will go elsewhere.

(05-31-2018, 11:20 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: If they were to pay less than what the TTC pays they wouldn't get applications because people would go to the TTC instead. If you want high quality, qualified applicants you have to pay them like they are high quality, qualified applicants or they will go elsewhere.

(05-31-2018, 12:41 PM)KevinT Wrote:

(05-31-2018, 09:34 AM)Bytor Wrote: What is the equipment that is not yet installed on the LRVs?

Great question!  To further quote the report:

Quote:Prior to going into service it is also necessary to install certain specialized equipment. As part of the Project, GrandLinq is responsible for ensuring the finished vehicle integrates seamlessly with the built system. On-board equipment includes radios, antennas and on-board systems to control gates, crossings, and traffic signals. This also allows the vehicles to communicate with ION Control Centre. With this equipment, ION can run at service speeds and at consistent times throughout operations.

(05-31-2018, 12:41 PM)KevinT Wrote: Aside:  I'd be happy if all the phase 3 speculation (including how to pronounce wool-itch [pun, I actually pronounce the second w]) was broken out of this thread.