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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-16-2018

(04-16-2018, 09:32 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Hey Canard, can you explain the relevance of your earlier tweet about that CAD job posting?

Sure. It was the verbiage; "...LFLRV's currently being manufactured in Waterloo".

This kind of goes along with my understanding that they've brought in a whole whackload of more people to do assembly and modification here.

506 is still sitting on the flatcar in Kingston, and hasn't been picked up.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinT - 04-17-2018

(04-14-2018, 06:58 PM)sevenman Wrote:
(04-14-2018, 04:09 PM)JoeKW Wrote: So, is this really mostly Bombardiers fault?  Didn't the region ask them to hold trains back until a few weeks ago?

Actually, pretty much all their fault.

I'm curious, how do you propose that they could have delivered completed trains to the region any earlier when Metrolinx refused to sign off on a spec once the Transit City projects for which the original order was placed were all cancelled or delayed?

Even after they had a spec they could build and deliver to in mid-2016, the Communications Based Train Control signalling system remained unspecified, hence the hole in the dashboard we all witnessed at the open houses.  I can only assume that that gap has been closed now, but it would only have happened very recently.

Unfortunately Bombardier can't blame Metrolinx as they are still a major customer of theirs, and the region can't blame Metrolinx as they still want Phase 2 funding, so the only party that gets publicly named and shamed is Bombardier.  Are they blameless?  I'm sure not, but I do feel sorry for them for getting 100% of the blame in the public press / mindset while only being partially responsible for the overall delays.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-17-2018

(04-17-2018, 11:39 AM)KevinT Wrote: I'm curious, how do you propose that they could have delivered completed trains to the region any earlier when Metrolinx refused to sign off on a spec once the Transit City projects for which the original order was placed were all cancelled or delayed?

Even after they had a spec they could build and deliver to in mid-2016, the Communications Based Train Control signalling system remained unspecified, hence the hole in the dashboard we all witnessed at the open houses.  I can only assume that that gap has been closed now, but it would only have happened very recently.

Unfortunately Bombardier can't blame Metrolinx as they are still a major customer of theirs, and the region can't blame Metrolinx as they still want Phase 2 funding, so the only party that gets publicly named and shamed is Bombardier.  Are they blameless?  I'm sure not, but I do feel sorry for them for getting 100% of the blame in the public press / mindset while only being partially responsible for the overall delays.

This should be a pinned post - thank you for explaining this so well Kevin!

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 04-17-2018

(04-17-2018, 12:03 PM)Canard Wrote:
(04-17-2018, 11:39 AM)KevinT Wrote: I'm curious, how do you propose that they could have delivered completed trains to the region any earlier when Metrolinx refused to sign off on a spec once the Transit City projects for which the original order was placed were all cancelled or delayed?

Even after they had a spec they could build and deliver to in mid-2016, the Communications Based Train Control signalling system remained unspecified, hence the hole in the dashboard we all witnessed at the open houses.  I can only assume that that gap has been closed now, but it would only have happened very recently.

Unfortunately Bombardier can't blame Metrolinx as they are still a major customer of theirs, and the region can't blame Metrolinx as they still want Phase 2 funding, so the only party that gets publicly named and shamed is Bombardier.  Are they blameless?  I'm sure not, but I do feel sorry for them for getting 100% of the blame in the public press / mindset while only being partially responsible for the overall delays.

This should be a pinned post - thank you for explaining this so well Kevin!

Thanks both of you for this. Assuming this is correct, I think I understand better what is really happening, and maybe why the judge wasn’t so keen on Metrolinx’ position in the Bombardier lawsuit: yes, Bombardier flubbed the manufacturing in Thunder Bay, but if they hadn’t we would just have had vehicles in 2016 with no CBTC components. In other words, it was very lucky for somebody at Metrolinx that Bombardier messed up initially, because otherwise it would have been obvious that Metrolinx had dropped the ball.

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if Sheppard East hadn’t been cancelled/postponed/sent to the phantom zone (I mean seriously, it’s been each of those at various times; “cancelled” by Rob Ford, postponed by City Council and the Province, and now it’s in the phantom zone where theoretically it’s happening as soon as Finch is built but most people, including me, believe it will not be built in the foreseeable future). It was supposed to begin construction in 2011 I believe and open in something like 2013 or 2014. Would it have opened late? Would Metrolinx have figured out their CBTC system? Would Bombardier have figured out how to manufacture the vehicles promptly?

Really more of this should be public. Instead of just “The LRT system is late” it should be “it’s done, but we’re waiting for the CBTC systems” or whatever.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 04-17-2018

Waterloo Region informs Bombardier it intends to sue for losses due to late LRT vehicles

Quote:An email from Councillor Tom Galloway to 570 NEWS says, quote, “At the end of the day we intend to sue Bombardier for all losses over and above the penalties. They have been so informed.”


RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - NotStan - 04-17-2018

(04-17-2018, 03:18 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Waterloo Region informs Bombardier it intends to sue for losses due to late LRT vehicles

Quote:An email from Councillor Tom Galloway to 570 NEWS says, quote, “At the end of the day we intend to sue Bombardier for all losses over and above the penalties. They have been so informed.”

Galloway tells the Mike Farwell Show, Bombardier is the exclusive cause of the delay in service.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - trainspotter139 - 04-17-2018

(04-17-2018, 04:25 PM)NotStan Wrote:
(04-17-2018, 03:18 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Waterloo Region informs Bombardier it intends to sue for losses due to late LRT vehicles

Galloway tells the Mike Farwell Show, Bombardier is the exclusive cause of the delay in service.

which is absolute hogwash. Had the region not delayed their delivery, we would likely have them all by now, AND Bombardier would have been able to do all the testing and integrations here and train mechanics and operators, all in one go.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jeffster - 04-17-2018

(04-17-2018, 05:14 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote:
(04-17-2018, 04:25 PM)NotStan Wrote: Galloway tells the Mike Farwell Show, Bombardier is the exclusive cause of the delay in service.

which is absolute hogwash. Had the region not delayed their delivery, we would likely have them all by now, AND Bombardier would have been able to do all the testing and integrations here and train mechanics and operators, all in one go.

Do we have any proof of this?

Proof, other than the truthful hyperbole that the politicians continue to feed us up until this time.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 04-17-2018

Bombardier says it's 'doing everything' to finish Waterloo region's LRT order

Quote:So far, only four light rail vehicles have been delivered to Waterloo region. Prud'Homme confirmed that one vehicle is in transit, two are ready to ship, three are being tested and four are near completion.


RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-17-2018

I think a few of us here are in a tough situation. We can’t publicly reveal our sources, but know that the statement made by the Region is untrue, damaging, and unfair.

This is going to get very dirty, I think, which is really sad. Sad

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Viewfromthe42 - 04-17-2018

It's possibly another political save-face. If the assertions are true that Metrolinx is to blame for much of the delay, but can't realistically or publicly be blamed, then politicians with an upcoming election might be doing the old punt-to-OMB move: do something they know will cost money and fail, but will give them a better image to present to the public.

Right now, there are a few options:
1) Blame Bombardier
2) Blame Metrolinx
3) Don't blame anyone

Consequences to the region/council could be:
1) Nothing
2) The province doesn't support the region as willingly on initiatives
3) The public is inclined to turf "do-nothing, pushover" politicians (who were the do-LRT politicians many of us appreciate), and turf "wasteful, failed" phase 2

I'm taking some leaps. But if these are the three consequential scenarios, I can understand the motivation.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Persandals - 04-17-2018

(04-17-2018, 05:57 PM)Canard Wrote: I think a few of us here are in a tough situation. We can’t publicly reveal our sources, but know that the statement made by the Region is untrue, damaging, and unfair.

This is going to get very dirty, I think, which is really sad. Sad

Yes the statement could be partially untrue, but calling Bombardier out is definitely not unfair. Bombardier continues to be an absolute joke of a company. Does the region have its own issues? Yes, but at the end of the day this is a train (and plane) company that struggles to build trains (and planes), and does not deserve the support you give it.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tomh009 - 04-17-2018

(04-17-2018, 07:11 PM)Persandals Wrote: ... at the end of the day this is a train (and plane) company that struggles to build trains (and planes), and does not deserve the support you give it.

At least on the aviation side, BBD products (C-series commercial jets and Global business jets) are highly regarded. Yes, it took them longer to build them that planned, but it happens to the best companies, too (ask Boeing about the 787 or Airbus about the A380).

Back to our LRT system: there is no doubt the trains are delayed. But BBD has had trains waiting at Kingston for months now, and we only recently started accepting them again. And Grandlinq still keeps making repairs to the track (and there is no testing going on).

So while Galloway's official statement may be that it's 100% Bombardier, I will choose to believe my own eyes and own brain, and draw my own conclusions.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Pheidippides - 04-17-2018

Bombardier could probably mount a pretty good defense that GrandLinq should share in some of the responsibility.

Speaking of which, there seems to be more safety cones and signs accumulating at King and Union, this time on the south side. I wonder if more repairs are schedule when the ice melts.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - bgb_ca - 04-17-2018

506 was reported in Belleville on Facebook, meaning it's finally on the move.