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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 10-31-2016

Why is it only on one side?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 10-31-2016

Marketer, on UrbanToronto, you said:

Quote:They built this station with two side platforms, to reduce the property impact at the mall.

...with regard to the terminus stations.

I don't understand; to me, the property impact is significantly greater with outboard platforms. A centre platform can be one "unit" wide (in theory). In reality it's probably 1.5 units wide. But outboard requires 2 units of platforms.

Or do you mean because the length of the whole thing is greater because the tracks have to spread prior to going in? And that's why there's a special super-compact No. 5 crossover at Conestoga?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 10-31-2016

(10-31-2016, 04:58 PM)Canard Wrote: Marketer, on UrbanToronto, you said:

Quote:They built this station with two side platforms, to reduce the property impact at the mall.

...with regard to the terminus stations.

I don't understand; to me, the property impact is significantly greater with outboard platforms. A centre platform can be one "unit" wide (in theory). In reality it's probably 1.5 units wide. But outboard requires 2 units of platforms.

Or do you mean because the length of the whole thing is greater because the tracks have to spread prior to going in? And that's why there's a special super-compact No. 5 crossover at Conestoga?

If they really wanted to minimize property impact the station could have a single track and a single platform, and for that matter the last short distance of the line could be a single line. With a maximum frequency of one vehicle every 7 minutes, the last 3 minutes’ travel of the line could be single track. I’d probably take the double track closer than that to the end in order to avoid problems with increasing frequency but the station itself could certainly be much narrower than what they are building.

Actually I’m a bit confused what the second track is supposed to be for anyway. In TTC subway stations there are frequently two trains in the station at once, but since they’re at the same platform it’s no problem to board the next one slated to leave. Here with side platforms if both were in use it might not be obvious which one to use and it might be awkward to switch to the other one.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 10-31-2016

(10-31-2016, 05:38 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: If they really wanted to minimize property impact the station could have a single track and a single platform, and for that matter the last short distance of the line could be a single line. With a maximum frequency of one vehicle every 7 minutes, the last 3 minutes’ travel of the line could be single track. I’d probably take the double track closer than that to the end in order to avoid problems with increasing frequency but the station itself could certainly be much narrower than what they are building.

Yeah, I hear you... In all my travels though, it's always a double-track platform with a crossover either before or after the station platforms.  It's actually very common to have platforms on the outside, just like ours - but in my experience that's usually on automated systems, where the train disembarks on one platform, moves through the crossover, then alights on the other platform:



Montreal's metro functions like this on all the lines, too.

In Toronto, as you mention, the subway trains typically sit for a cycle at the terminus stations, which gives the drivers a break.  So Train A arrives on Platform 1, Train B arrives on Platform 2, then train A leaves and train C arrives on Platform 1, train B leaves, and train D arrives on platform 2, etc...  I could very much imagine that's what will happen with our system, too.  Or, perhaps it'll be like the Scarborough rt at McCowan, where one platform will remain boarded up for 30 years waiting for an extension that will never come. Sad

I kind of like what they do at Broadbeach on G:Link (and I bring up G:Link a lot, because many of the same system partners in the consortium building our system built that system). Have a look: Broadbeach Station

I can only think of two that I have done that have what you suggest (with the single track toward the ends), and that's the new Canada Line in Vancouver, and New Shuttle North of Tokyo.  Actually when I rode the Canada Line I was shocked at the configuration; I immediately understood why they did it, but thought it was really poor future planing because an expansion would be that much harder to push through.

The last few stops on New Shuttle are all on a single-track portion of the line, and the scheduling is done such that the trains meet up at the stations which have switches and two tracks, so it all works out.  It just limits the theoretical minimum headway between trains.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - kps - 10-31-2016

(10-31-2016, 08:20 PM)Canard Wrote: […] an expansion would be that much harder to push through.

Where would the expansion from Conestoga Mall go — back down King St? If half the trains take the loop clockwise vs counterclockwise, then the ones that take the turn up to Elmira will screw up the spacing.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 10-31-2016

No, I always imagined an expansion out of Conestoga would actually involve a switch at King/Northfield, and tracks could continue North on King. Or, the split could be at the Northfield station, with a spur up to St. Jacobs/Elmira that way by upgrading the existing rail line. Probably every-other (or every third?) Northbound train would be signboarded either Conestoga or Elmira.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - dunkalunk - 10-31-2016

(10-31-2016, 10:05 PM)kps Wrote:
(10-31-2016, 08:20 PM)Canard Wrote: […] an expansion would be that much harder to push through.

Where would the expansion from Conestoga Mall go — back down King St? If half the trains take the loop clockwise vs counterclockwise, then the ones that take the turn up to Elmira will screw up the spacing.

I'd actually thought that King St to University Ave was a natural extension for the ION. In any case, nothing has yet been decided, and we have yet to determine Stage 2's preferred routing through Cambridge.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - DHLawrence - 10-31-2016

I thought the preferred routing had been chosen. They have all the track diagrams on the region website.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - dunkalunk - 11-01-2016

(10-31-2016, 11:20 PM)DHLawrence Wrote: I thought the preferred routing had been chosen. They have all the track diagrams on the region website.

Stage 1 routing has been decided and is set.
Stage 2 is still under consideration. Some new information about the feasibility of the rail crossing on Eagle street  came to light which necessitated the Region re-examine the routing for Stage 2. The Region was to present their preferred option for Stage 2 ION this fall, however the consultations have been pushed into the winter.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Pheidippides - 11-01-2016

Paving equipment was just getting started on Duke, heading south from Water this morning.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jwilliamson - 11-01-2016

They were pouring more concrete in Uptown this morning.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Markster - 11-01-2016

(10-31-2016, 04:46 PM)Canard Wrote: Why is it only on one side?

Aha, but it is on both sides! Here's a picture of some on the West side of King.
   

I hope that more will go in, after they finish the track work.  If not, then... I guess they determined there wasn't enough space?

(10-31-2016, 04:58 PM)Canard Wrote: Marketer, on UrbanToronto, you said:
Quote:They built this station with two side platforms, to reduce the property impact at the mall.
...with regard to the terminus stations.
[...]
Or do you mean because the length of the whole thing is greater because the tracks have to spread prior to going in?
That is my understanding. A centre platform may only be 1.5x as wide as a side platform, but there's also the wasted space as the tracks spread apart (and converge back together).

(10-31-2016, 08:20 PM)Canard Wrote: I can only think of two that I have done that have what you suggest (with the single track toward the ends), and that's the new Canada Line in Vancouver [....]  Actually when I rode the Canada Line I was shocked at the configuration; I immediately understood why they did it, but thought it was really poor future planing because an expansion would be that much harder to push through.

My understanding of that is that it was strictly a cost-savings measure. The PPP that was building it cut-cut-cut to get the thing in under-budget, and that meant several concessions, including the single-tracked end-of-line, the short station boxes, single-entrances, and cut-and-cover being used to build most of the line.

Though it's quite amusing how there's a bank right where the second track should be...

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 11-01-2016

(11-01-2016, 10:47 AM)Markster Wrote: That is my understanding. A centre platform may only be 1.5x as wide as a side platform, but there's also the wasted space as the tracks spread apart (and converge back together).

I've totally never thought of it that way before, and you're exactly right.  Mind blown.  Big Grin

(11-01-2016, 10:47 AM)Markster Wrote: Though it's quite amusing how there's a bank right where the second track should be...

OMG, I didn't notice that at the time, either (though it was dark when I rode out to that end and back, and I had probably walked to the tail end of the train to try and get the "driver's seat" for the return journey Smile).

That's unreal!

   

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - boatracer - 11-01-2016

Looks like they are going to have to reinstall some crossing equipment on Columbia after an accident this morning.

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - urbd - 11-01-2016

(10-31-2016, 11:09 PM)dunkalunk Wrote:
(10-31-2016, 10:05 PM)kps Wrote: Where would the expansion from Conestoga Mall go — back down King St? If half the trains take the loop clockwise vs counterclockwise, then the ones that take the turn up to Elmira will screw up the spacing.

I'd actually thought that King St to University Ave was a natural extension for the ION. In any case, nothing has yet been decided, and we have yet to determine Stage 2's preferred routing through Cambridge.

I 100% agree with you, but what would be better... turning west on University, or continuing south on King St and connecting at Waterloo Town Square with Phase 1?