(06-05-2020, 07:20 PM)dtkvictim Wrote:

(06-05-2020, 06:50 PM)creative Wrote: Out of curiosity, how should have this been designed? I’m not a civil engineer or have any experience designing LRT systems so I’m just asking!

Just taking wild guesses here (I'm sure engineers should know of better solutions), but either don't have the tracks switch from the side to the center (which basically requires crossing the tracks a small angle), or have dedicated cycling lanes or a MUT outside of the tracks, and never have them cross?

On the Weber street underpass the sidewalk (perhaps just on the south side?) is marked as a shared pathway, so something similar could have been done here. However, I still think that's a really poor solution. On Weber the shared pathway is only for 2 blocks, meaning you have to merge back on to the road. You also get yelled at by both pedestrians and cars for whichever option you choose to take...

(06-05-2020, 07:40 PM)creative Wrote: As I see this is in quotes, I assume this was the actual conversation!

(06-05-2020, 07:59 PM)creative Wrote: I’m just trying to educate myself as to how all of these incompetent civil engineers manage to get their degrees! I turn on my tap and clean water Comes out. I flush my toilet and everything magically goes away. We just experienced a major rain storm and the water magically went somewhere. Electricity somehow is delivered to my house.

(06-05-2020, 08:07 PM)creative Wrote: You are entitled to your opinion of how things are built but please stop calling these professionally trained engineers incompetent and don’t ever call me stupid again!

(06-05-2020, 07:17 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(06-05-2020, 06:50 PM)creative Wrote: Out of curiosity, how should have this been designed? I’m not a civil engineer or have any experience designing LRT systems so I’m just asking!

I am not a civil engineer either, but I know of a number different options.

One would be to use a product to fill in the flangeway, there are a few rubber products, which will be depressed by the weight of the LRV, but which fill the flangeway so that a bicycle wheel cannot get stuck in it.

(06-05-2020, 09:09 PM)tomh009 Wrote:

(06-05-2020, 07:17 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I am not a civil engineer either, but I know of a number different options.

One would be to use a product to fill in the flangeway, there are a few rubber products, which will be depressed by the weight of the LRV, but which fill the flangeway so that a bicycle wheel cannot get stuck in it.

Assuming this is a good solution, this seems simple, and could be retrofitted in after the fact (ie now). And it sounds like the cost would not be high. Is that correct? Might you have link to such a product?

(06-05-2020, 07:31 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(06-05-2020, 07:20 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: Just taking wild guesses here (I'm sure engineers should know of better solutions), but either don't have the tracks switch from the side to the center (which basically requires crossing the tracks a small angle), or have dedicated cycling lanes or a MUT outside of the tracks, and never have them cross?

On the Weber street underpass the sidewalk (perhaps just on the south side?) is marked as a shared pathway, so something similar could have been done here. However, I still think that's a really poor solution. On Weber the shared pathway is only for 2 blocks, meaning you have to merge back on to the road. You also get yelled at by both pedestrians and cars for whichever option you choose to take...

The Weber design is indicative of the regional issues...it took years to get signs put up, and the engineers who designed it had this exact conversation:

"This says we need a MUT, what's a MUT?"

"It's like a wide sidewalk I think."

"Wide sidewalk it is."

To be fair, it continues for more than two blocks, it's meant to connect the Spur Line Trail to Water St.

1. Getting from Weber to the MUT at Water? Do you make a left turn onto the sidewalk, or dismount on the right side and cross as a pedestrian twice?
   
2. Crossing the signalized intersections, do you have to dismount when it's a MUT?
   

(06-05-2020, 09:38 PM)dtkvictim Wrote:

(06-05-2020, 07:31 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: The Weber design is indicative of the regional issues...it took years to get signs put up, and the engineers who designed it had this exact conversation:

"This says we need a MUT, what's a MUT?"

"It's like a wide sidewalk I think."

"Wide sidewalk it is."

To be fair, it continues for more than two blocks, it's meant to connect the Spur Line Trail to Water St.

Oh, I didn't realize it was more than two blocks, because there is no visual indication it's not just a sidewalk beyond that point (there's a sign, but the sidewalk design just looks like a sidewalk). Looking at Google maps now... I was also never certain if only the South/West side was a MUT, or both sides, since they look the same. Based on the signs, I'm assuming just the South/West side is. If you are a cyclist taking Weber to Waterloo, what's the proper etiquette for

1. Getting from Weber to the MUT at Water? Do you make a left turn onto the sidewalk, or dismount on the right side and cross as a pedestrian twice?
   
2. Crossing the signalized intersections, do you have to dismount when it's a MUT?
   

I never wanted to bother with Weber when cycling to work, so I took Duke for most of it. Although, the Duke and Victoria light doesn't change for cyclists, so I eventually gave up and just started walking to work...

(06-05-2020, 09:59 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(06-05-2020, 09:38 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: Oh, I didn't realize it was more than two blocks, because there is no visual indication it's not just a sidewalk beyond that point (there's a sign, but the sidewalk design just looks like a sidewalk). Looking at Google maps now... I was also never certain if only the South/West side was a MUT, or both sides, since they look the same. Based on the signs, I'm assuming just the South/West side is. If you are a cyclist taking Weber to Waterloo, what's the proper etiquette for

1. Getting from Weber to the MUT at Water? Do you make a left turn onto the sidewalk, or dismount on the right side and cross as a pedestrian twice?
   
2. Crossing the signalized intersections, do you have to dismount when it's a MUT?
   

I never wanted to bother with Weber when cycling to work, so I took Duke for most of it. Although, the Duke and Victoria light doesn't change for cyclists, so I eventually gave up and just started walking to work...

Yup...it's pretty terrible.

Generally when I bike, I will come up Water, turn left into the parking lot (I suspect this is less surprising to drivers than trying to make a left turn onto the sidewalk, and it saves some time). I merge onto the MUT/sidewalk and proceed on the west side of Weber. I won't stay publicly whether I dismount to cross, but sufficies to say that I find it ridiculous that the regional engineers did not provide for a crossing for the users of the MUT, and that I don't believe dismounting improves safety, if drivers are going to turn without looking, I don't believe it matters whether you are on a bike or not, the Victoria St. corner is so poorly designed for non-motor vehicle users anyway.

It is sure is a shame that you were forced by the poor infrastructure in the region to give up cycling to work .

(06-05-2020, 10:32 PM)dtkvictim Wrote:

(06-05-2020, 09:59 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Yup...it's pretty terrible.

Generally when I bike, I will come up Water, turn left into the parking lot (I suspect this is less surprising to drivers than trying to make a left turn onto the sidewalk, and it saves some time). I merge onto the MUT/sidewalk and proceed on the west side of Weber. I won't stay publicly whether I dismount to cross, but sufficies to say that I find it ridiculous that the regional engineers did not provide for a crossing for the users of the MUT, and that I don't believe dismounting improves safety, if drivers are going to turn without looking, I don't believe it matters whether you are on a bike or not, the Victoria St. corner is so poorly designed for non-motor vehicle users anyway.

It is sure is a shame that you were forced by the poor infrastructure in the region to give up cycling to work .

Coming up Water I would definitely do that as well. I was more so wondering if you were already on Weber, what the planners intended for cyclists to do in order to get to the MUT.

And yes, Weber/Victoria is a terrifying intersection. Once I started walking for my commute, I walked through it 2 times a day as it was the shortest way (sometimes 4 times if I want back downtown for lunch). If I was still working there, I think getting hit would be an inevitability. I already had to actively avoid being hit multiple times.

Oddly enough (and more on topic to ION interacting with intersections), the next worst intersection I walked through was Water/Duke, for some reason. I think it might have to do with how the crosswalk to the east of Water is seemingly randomly set back a few meters, making visibility more difficult for cars (not that it's a good excuse for the drivers). This photos shows the interaction I had most often:

(06-05-2020, 08:02 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(06-05-2020, 07:59 PM)creative Wrote: I’m just trying to educate myself as to how all of these incompetent civil engineers manage to get their degrees! I turn on my tap and clean water Comes out. I flush my toilet and everything magically goes away. We just experienced a major rain storm and the water magically went somewhere. Electricity somehow is delivered to my house.

*sigh*...I see, so when you said you were just asking, you weren't asking, you were saying. And now you are playing stupid.

Congrats on being an unhelpful toxic person.

(06-05-2020, 07:59 PM)creative Wrote: I’m just trying to educate myself as to how all of these incompetent civil engineers manage to get their degrees! I turn on my tap and clean water Comes out. I flush my toilet and everything magically goes away. We just experienced a major rain storm and the water magically went somewhere. Electricity somehow is delivered to my house.