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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - danbrotherston - 07-18-2019

(07-18-2019, 10:34 AM)megabytephreak Wrote: I know there was a near miss at King and Allen around 7PM last night. Was walking towards the intersection (with some friends who had been delayed by the incident at King and Agnes), and was commenting on the giant No Right turn signs when we saw a minivan make a right turn across the southbound track and heard the LRT horn blowing. The van then had to back up and the train proceeded through the intersection. Probably happens all the time, but we honestly thought we were going to see the first three-collision day.

It absolutely does. I live next to the LRT, and while I cannot hear it, I now hear horns every hour or so, indicating they've had a near miss...and I'm on only one branch of the split section.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - taylortbb - 07-18-2019

Yep, listening to the LRT scanner they have to report all near misses. All day long multiples times an hour you hear reports of cars cutting off trains with illegal turns.

The LRV drivers have gotten pretty good at anticipating who will make an illegal turn and slowing down well in advance. If they didn't routinely stop while they have a proceed signal we'd have a dozen crashes a day.

You hear the dejection in the voice of the operators/control, "yep, I'm fine, yet another illegal turn" .

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 07-18-2019

(07-18-2019, 08:12 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: It's very likely that a collision would not be particularly perceptible to people on the train.  A small sedan weighs about a ton, the LRV weighs about 50 tons unloaded, and the braking is particularly powerful. If you watch videos of trams hitting cars, the drivers of the trams are usually not even jostled by the collision, I doubt it would be any more jarring than the usual jostling the LRV undergoes during normal operation.

I have it from a freight train driver that hitting a transport truck doesn’t feel like anything in the cab. Just a data point which may or may not inform what one would expect from an LRV hitting a car.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ac3r - 07-19-2019

The train I was on today was nearly hit 3 times. The first time was around Willis Way or something and the girl driving it had to slam on the brakes so hard everyone flew forward. Then around Victoria Station someone slammed on their horn and nearly hit it and then again at Ottawa Station. Finally, before pulling out she went on the speaker and asked everyone to grab onto a bar for the rest of the journey because people kept cutting her off.

If it didn't cost thousands of dollars to fix even just the bumper, it would almost be amusing.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - embe - 07-19-2019

I figured there would be an adjustment period for cars vs. trains along the route but these 1st hand reports (and 2nd hand ones) are pretty concerning nonetheless.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jeffster - 07-19-2019

(07-19-2019, 06:20 PM)ac3r Wrote: The train I was on today was nearly hit 3 times. The first time was around Willis Way or something and the girl driving it had to slam on the brakes so hard everyone flew forward. Then around Victoria Station someone slammed on their horn and nearly hit it and then again at Ottawa Station. Finally, before pulling out she went on the speaker and asked everyone to grab onto a bar for the rest of the journey because people kept cutting her off.

If it didn't cost thousands of dollars to fix even just the bumper, it would almost be amusing.

They need to start reviewing video of these near misses and start charging these people $500 for stupid driving. It's not going to stop unless the region starts charging. As I said before, create a by-law and the region itself, and the not police, can fine people. This at least until the police start enforcing traffic laws.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ac3r - 07-19-2019

(07-18-2019, 07:07 AM)MidTowner Wrote:
ac3r Wrote:And another one. This says it was a "collision on LRT tracks" and doesn't explicitly say a car hit the train, but as the article says, there was visible damage and people on the train felt the impact. Two in one day...keep it up Kitchener.

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/collision-on-lrt-tracks-interrupts-traffic-in-kitchener-1.4512562

https://twitter.com/GoldDwaggy/status/1151608003533185030

Someone commuting with me this morning was on that train yesterday. There was no collision, but the train braked hard and he was thrown to the floor. He says (this is all hearsay, remember) that the train was stopped for around 25 minutes, part of that time shut down with no HVAC, before a linesman or someone showed up to inspect the train and ask if everyone was okay. He said communication from the driver was good, except for the fact that there was nothing really to communicate.

He thought there was no collision at all, but that the car was stuck on the curb between the rails and the road.

Whether or not 25 minutes was subjective or objective time, there was obviously a delay and he told me the train was quite busy. Calling out paramedics, Keolis staff, and a couple of cops, all of whom have other things they could be doing, along with wasting a few dozens or potentially a hundred commuters' time, is a huge cost. There should be a significant charge against that driver.

(07-19-2019, 06:55 PM)jeffster Wrote:
(07-19-2019, 06:20 PM)ac3r Wrote: The train I was on today was nearly hit 3 times. The first time was around Willis Way or something and the girl driving it had to slam on the brakes so hard everyone flew forward. Then around Victoria Station someone slammed on their horn and nearly hit it and then again at Ottawa Station. Finally, before pulling out she went on the speaker and asked everyone to grab onto a bar for the rest of the journey because people kept cutting her off.

If it didn't cost thousands of dollars to fix even just the bumper, it would almost be amusing.

They need to start reviewing video of these near misses and start charging these people $500 for stupid driving. It's not going to stop unless the region starts charging. As I said before, create a by-law and the region itself, and the not police, can fine people. This at least until the police start enforcing traffic laws.

Honestly...it should be more.. If fare evading can get you a ticket of over $200, hitting a train and costing the city so much money in damage and costs to remedy that needs to carry pretty big consequences. I don't know how we do it here in Toronto when this happens, but there is probably a way bigger penalty.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 07-19-2019

(07-19-2019, 07:22 PM)ac3r Wrote:
(07-19-2019, 06:55 PM)jeffster Wrote: They need to start reviewing video of these near misses and start charging these people $500 for stupid driving. It's not going to stop unless the region starts charging. As I said before, create a by-law and the region itself, and the not police, can fine people. This at least until the police start enforcing traffic laws.

Honestly...it should be more.. If fare evading can get you a ticket of over $200, hitting a train and costing the city so much money in damage and costs to remedy that needs to carry pretty big consequences. I don't know how we do it here in Toronto when this happens, but there is probably a way bigger penalty.

The key is to fine the perpetrators of near misses, not severely punish those who are actually involved in collisions. Most of the people who collided probably thought they were driving OK; hearing that penalties were being increased for hitting the LRT would barely register, because they’re not planning to do that. By contrast, starting to receive a series of $100 fine notices in the mail would very quickly make them realize that they have to shape up (or switch to riding transit).

Also, the fines should be income-scaled. There are poor people for whom a $100 fine would be a crushing financial blow, while even a $1000 fine wouldn’t be a serious disincentive for many rich people. Maybe the greater of 1% of the value of the car, or 1/1000 of the person’s yearly income.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 07-19-2019

The smaller drop- barriers that only block pedestrians have been disabled at Erb and Caroline, and the arms and counterweights removed. It seems the trains move slow enough there that the more egregious safety standards are not required after all.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ac3r - 07-19-2019

(07-19-2019, 07:30 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(07-19-2019, 07:22 PM)ac3r Wrote: Honestly...it should be more.. If fare evading can get you a ticket of over $200, hitting a train and costing the city so much money in damage and costs to remedy that needs to carry pretty big consequences. I don't know how we do it here in Toronto when this happens, but there is probably a way bigger penalty.

The key is to fine the perpetrators of near misses, not severely punish those who are actually involved in collisions.

Ideally, but anyone who slams on the breaks after a near miss is going to drive off seconds later, and the train will continue on. Unfortunately, you can only challenge those that manage to drive into it. There may be cameras but I can't see them trying to ID every license plate they manage to capture, as that has a lot of complexities. It'll just take time for drivers in this city to get used to this.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 07-19-2019

(07-19-2019, 09:29 PM)ac3r Wrote:
(07-19-2019, 07:30 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: The key is to fine the perpetrators of near misses, not severely punish those who are actually involved in collisions.

Ideally, but anyone who slams on the breaks after a near miss is going to drive off seconds later, and the train will continue on. Unfortunately, you can only challenge those that manage to drive into it. There may be cameras but I can't see them trying to ID every license plate they manage to capture, as that has a lot of complexities. It'll just take time for drivers in this city to get used to this.

My idea is indeed video-based ticketing, similar to red light and speed cameras. I don’t believe license plate identification is a big deal these days; I believe we have fully-automatic ticketing cameras already. These ones couldn’t be fully automatic as to identification of ticketable incidents, but you can imagine drivers pressing a button which would flag the surrounding minute of footage for review and identification of which vehicles to ticket. The video reviewer could point at license plates for automatic recognition and designate offences to ticket based on their assessment.

While there are legitimate concerns around those technologies, the fact that they would mean that enforcement would actually happen is not one of them. I suspect that enforcement based on LRV-mounted cameras of illegal turns, violations of right-of-way, etc. would be an easier sell to the public, as it would be clear that the ticketed incidents would in fact be serious safety violations that only through luck did not end in a collision with the LRV.

It’s much better to have a high probability of a relatively small penalty than a small probability of a large penalty.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Acitta - 07-20-2019

10 Ion collisions in seven weeks
The Record:  ‘Pure carelessness’: Motorists accused in Ion collisions

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - panamaniac - 07-20-2019

(07-20-2019, 12:35 PM)Acitta Wrote: 10 Ion collisions in seven weeks
The Record:  ‘Pure carelessness’: Motorists accused in Ion collisions

The number should come down over time, but these accidents will probably be a permanent feature of the system.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tomh009 - 07-20-2019

(07-20-2019, 12:35 PM)Acitta Wrote: 10 Ion collisions in seven weeks
The Record:  ‘Pure carelessness’: Motorists accused in Ion collisions

That's actually a very reasonable article by Outhit.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - danbrotherston - 07-20-2019

(07-19-2019, 09:29 PM)ac3r Wrote:
(07-19-2019, 07:30 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: The key is to fine the perpetrators of near misses, not severely punish those who are actually involved in collisions.

Ideally, but anyone who slams on the breaks after a near miss is going to drive off seconds later, and the train will continue on. Unfortunately, you can only challenge those that manage to drive into it. There may be cameras but I can't see them trying to ID every license plate they manage to capture, as that has a lot of complexities. It'll just take time for drivers in this city to get used to this.

Given that most close calls involve a driver driving illegally (e.g., improper turn, failure to yield). There is zero reason or justification for not ticketing them for that illegal and dangerous act.