Waterloo Region Connected
Grand River Transit - Printable Version

+- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com)
+-- Forum: Waterloo Region Works (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Forum: Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Grand River Transit (/showthread.php?tid=13)



RE: Grand River Transit - KevinL - 11-24-2017

I hope they go with a movable shield. There are times and routes that definitely need them, and other circumstances where they would be more in the way. Leaving it to the driver's discretion seems the best way forward.


RE: Grand River Transit - Markster - 11-24-2017

I really don't have a problem with this.

It's different, and sometimes when something is different it can cause a gut reaction that it's bad. I agree the first time I saw plexiglass between me and a driver in Toronto, that I thought it was unusual.

But the whole concept of the driver-slash-customer-service-agent is a bit weird to begin with.  In ye olde days, you had a driver, and an attendant.  The driver was able to be separate from the riders, and focus on driving.  If this gives the drivers the opportunity to focus better on driving when they should be driving, then I'm happy for them.

I would prefer the moveable shield. I know that some drivers prefer them, because they want to be able to interact with people.


RE: Grand River Transit - KevinL - 11-24-2017

Also, LRT drivers (and subway drivers and the drivers of the new Toronto streetcars) are walled off, too. We'll be getting used to separated roles soon enough.


RE: Grand River Transit - MidTowner - 11-24-2017

(11-24-2017, 12:33 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: From the article: Over the past four years, Grand River Transit bus drivers have reported 11 physical assaults and seven attempts, 30 threats, and three cases of being spit on, said Gillespie.

S/he is a bus driver.  They are there to safely drive a bus.  All extra courtesy provided by the driver is a bonus.  The fact that this is just a partial shield and not a full enclosure boggles my mind why its even an issue.... I guess I'll have to agree to disagree....

Coke

Thanks for pointing that out. Those don't seem like particularly alarming numbers to me, but I guess that's obviously subjective. Without context (numbers of drivers, time spent driving, whatever), I don't really know what to think. Is GRT more dangerous than other systems? What's the cost of those injuries versus the estimated cost of having these things?

It's not true that "all extra courtesy by the driver is a bonus." I feel fortunate that none of the drivers I've had seem to think this is a case, either. GRT job posters and the like always say something along the lines of "being a driver is about much more than just driving."

Maybe, given all the fear people seem to have, shields are inevitably. In which case, the retractable ones might be the best we can get- drivers who want to be civil and provide service in addition to making the bus go can leave it open, those who think courtesy should be viewed as a "bonus" can do otherwise.


RE: Grand River Transit - Coke6pk - 11-24-2017

(11-24-2017, 12:39 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(11-24-2017, 11:55 AM)Coke6pk Wrote: The world has changed, and I will personally applaud any steps for the safety of workers, even if it ruins the perception of driving a bus in the 50's....

Coke

Trying to avoid getting into the actual discussion about the shields, but the world has changed in that our crime rate is lower than it has been for decades. When people say “the world has changed” they usually mean that crime has gone up, which is usually not in fact the case.

My comment meant nothing of the crime rate.  (I don't subscribe to the "world is falling" that the 6:00 news is force feeding society.)

Years ago construction workers on skyscrapers didn't wear harnesses.  Car's didn't have seat belts.  Scientists didn't wear safety goggles.  Police didn't wear ballistic vests.  Bar/Restaurant workers suffered in a smoke filled environment. 

Coke


RE: Grand River Transit - Rainrider22 - 11-24-2017

(11-24-2017, 03:11 PM)Coke6pk Wrote:
(11-24-2017, 12:39 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: Trying to avoid getting into the actual discussion about the shields, but the world has changed in that our crime rate is lower than it has been for decades. When people say “the world has changed” they usually mean that crime has gone up, which is usually not in fact the case.

My comment meant nothing of the crime rate.  (I don't subscribe to the "world is falling" that the 6:00 news is force feeding society.)

Years ago construction workers on skyscrapers didn't wear harnesses.  Car's didn't have seat belts.  Scientists didn't wear safety goggles.  Police didn't wear ballistic vests.  Bar/Restaurant workers suffered in a smoke filled environment. 

Coke

Reported crime rate is falling.  Violent and more complicated crimes are on the rise, all of which take up more resources. In addition, violence related to mental health is way up.  Ask anyone who works in the industry.
A lot of people don't report crime anymore,  For instance if someone went into a vehicle over night and stole sun glasses and change and so on,  people would report it.  When the police officer attended, they would speak to the neighbours and find out there vehicle was broken into and they were a victim too.  That would generate further occurrences.  Now, even if reported to the police, the police often attend these types of calls anymore due to limited resources, the victim gets frustrated, they don't bother filing a report, we don't hear about the other victims, and the crimes go unreported.  Multiply that by so many other instances, and voilla,  you have crime statistics indicative of being lower when they are actually not.


RE: Grand River Transit - ijmorlan - 11-24-2017

(11-24-2017, 04:27 PM)Rainrider22 Wrote:
(11-24-2017, 03:11 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: My comment meant nothing of the crime rate.  (I don't subscribe to the "world is falling" that the 6:00 news is force feeding society.)

Years ago construction workers on skyscrapers didn't wear harnesses.  Car's didn't have seat belts.  Scientists didn't wear safety goggles.  Police didn't wear ballistic vests.  Bar/Restaurant workers suffered in a smoke filled environment. 

Coke

Reported crime rate is falling.  Violent and more complicated crimes are on the rise, all of which take up more resources. In addition, violence related to mental health is way up.  Ask anyone who works in the industry.
A lot of people don't report crime anymore,  For instance if someone went into a vehicle over night and stole sun glasses and change and so on,  people would report it.  When the police officer attended, they would speak to the neighbours and find out there vehicle was broken into and they were a victim too.  That would generate further occurrences.  Now, even if reported to the police, the police often attend these types of calls anymore due to limited resources, the victim gets frustrated, they don't bother filing a report, we don't hear about the other victims, and the crimes go unreported.  Multiply that by so many other instances, and voilla,  you have crime statistics indicative of being lower when they are actually not.

I can believe that petty crime is higher compared to the reported rate than it once was, but I find it pretty hard to believe that we’re getting more unreported violent crime now than previously. If anything, a wider range of activity is considered worthy of being taken seriously, not just as something that happens. What happens if a high school kid punches a classmate now? At one time, as far as I can tell, that was just “boys being boys”. Similarly for lesser sexual assault — I don’t think rapists attacking people in the park were ever considered not worthy of pursuit — but all sorts of day-to-day events that were once just part of the scene for women, in particular, are more and more considered to be unacceptable.


RE: Grand River Transit - panamaniac - 11-24-2017

(11-24-2017, 04:27 PM)Rainrider22 Wrote:
(11-24-2017, 03:11 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: My comment meant nothing of the crime rate.  (I don't subscribe to the "world is falling" that the 6:00 news is force feeding society.)

Years ago construction workers on skyscrapers didn't wear harnesses.  Car's didn't have seat belts.  Scientists didn't wear safety goggles.  Police didn't wear ballistic vests.  Bar/Restaurant workers suffered in a smoke filled environment. 

Coke

Reported crime rate is falling.  Violent and more complicated crimes are on the rise, all of which take up more resources. In addition, violence related to mental health is way up.  Ask anyone who works in the industry.
A lot of people don't report crime anymore,  For instance if someone went into a vehicle over night and stole sun glasses and change and so on,  people would report it.  When the police officer attended, they would speak to the neighbours and find out there vehicle was broken into and they were a victim too.  That would generate further occurrences.  Now, even if reported to the police, the police often attend these types of calls anymore due to limited resources, the victim gets frustrated, they don't bother filing a report, we don't hear about the other victims, and the crimes go unreported.  Multiply that by so many other instances, and voilla,  you have crime statistics indicative of being lower when they are actually not.

Do you have a source for that?  I thought that violent crime rates have been stable, or in decline, for the past twenty years.


RE: Grand River Transit - darts - 11-24-2017

I thought I read higher rates before, I know there was some concern since some bites were from people known to have had hepatitis. Can GRT ban people from riding the bus?

For what its worth I've seen a couple of random fights on the bus and a few people drunk out of their mind on the bus, I dont think any instance was reported but they weren't attacking the driver.


RE: Grand River Transit - Pheidippides - 11-24-2017

51 events in 83,500,000 rides is 0.61 per 1 million rides.

I don't think the shields will make much of a difference in lowering the number of events. In fact I think people would actually be more likely to bang on the barrier and be more threatening because there is no need to fear actually hurting someone (and been held responsible for a more serious act) or defending themselves.

Someone truly irate will find around those partial barriers and then the driver is literally trapped like a caged animal. Also, if an irate passenger can't get at the driver they will just go after the next closest person which will be a passenger. Face to face human interaction, with nothing in between, can be quite disarming in the many situations.

It would be better to invest early childhood education to avoid creating violent adults, in de-escalation for the drivers, or shoveling of bus stops to reduce the total number of injuries in the GRT system I think.


RE: Grand River Transit - KevinL - 11-24-2017

In more positive news, I've noticed more of the GrandLinq-installed real time displays are getting powered on. Benton and Charles is the latest to have them activated.


RE: Grand River Transit - Canard - 11-25-2017

Are they all installed by GrandLinq?

I only ask because there’s a new one at Margaret and Victoria, and that’s way outside of the LRT Corridor.


RE: Grand River Transit - Markster - 11-25-2017

Margaret and Victoria would have been installed by GRT, for route 204. The thing is, when GRT installs them, it takes a year or two after the route starts running for the work to finish. (Shelter built, and next bus sign activated)


RE: Grand River Transit - KevinL - 11-25-2017

The ones adjacent to Ion are GrandLinq-installed, and up and running a good bit faster than typical.


RE: Grand River Transit - MacBerry - 11-25-2017

(11-24-2017, 08:33 AM)MidTowner Wrote: I don't think it's a good addition. It seems to have been driven by a knee jerk reaction to anecdotes from other jurisdictions, and not statistics. And, of course, without any consideration to the riders' experience.

Is Waterloo Region dangerous? Not particularly.

It is, as a driver, if someone spits on you ...