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+--- Thread: GO Transit (/showthread.php?tid=12)
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RE: GO Transit - plam - 07-01-2023
(07-01-2023, 06:55 PM)ac3r Wrote: You actually think the government decided to spend a couple million dollars for the hell of it? I mean they do that all the time, but there was nothing conspiratorial here. They are simply a useless transit agency.
And yet, the train and bus service to Kitchener is way better than it was 10 years ago. I mean, it's possible to interpret everything negatively, but maybe that's not the best way. This particular project, maybe not so great, but others do work.
RE: GO Transit - Acitta - 07-02-2023
(06-30-2023, 02:33 PM)neonjoe Wrote: GO Train Pilot to London is ending this October
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/london-to-toronto-go-train-service-set-to-end-after-two-year-run
The tracks are so bad that the train has to crawl into London. In May, I took my new (heavy) e-bike on the train to London and discovered just outside of London that I was on the wrong car and the conductor had to help me move the bike through two cars to get to the accessibility coach, so I could get off the train upon arrival.
RE: GO Transit - ijmorlan - 07-02-2023
(07-02-2023, 01:41 PM)Acitta Wrote:(06-30-2023, 02:33 PM)neonjoe Wrote: GO Train Pilot to London is ending this October
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/london-to-toronto-go-train-service-set-to-end-after-two-year-run
The tracks are so bad that the train has to crawl into London. In May, I took my new (heavy) e-bike on the train to London and discovered just outside of London that I was on the wrong car and the conductor had to help me move the bike through two cars to get to the accessibility coach, so I could get off the train upon arrival.
So what you’re saying is, if the tracks were better you wouldn’t have been able to get off the train! Sounds like a planning win!
RE: GO Transit - Acitta - 07-02-2023
(07-02-2023, 07:47 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:(07-02-2023, 01:41 PM)Acitta Wrote: The tracks are so bad that the train has to crawl into London. In May, I took my new (heavy) e-bike on the train to London and discovered just outside of London that I was on the wrong car and the conductor had to help me move the bike through two cars to get to the accessibility coach, so I could get off the train upon arrival.
So what you’re saying is, if the tracks were better you wouldn’t have been able to get off the train! Sounds like a planning win!
The problem with being on the wrong car has to do with station construction, which they don't tell you about before you get on the train. Different cars don't open depending on which station you are at. Walking through the train is not a problem if you are not bringing a heavy ebike along with you.
RE: GO Transit - danbrotherston - 07-03-2023
(07-02-2023, 08:39 PM)Acitta Wrote:(07-02-2023, 07:47 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: So what you’re saying is, if the tracks were better you wouldn’t have been able to get off the train! Sounds like a planning win!
The problem with being on the wrong car has to do with station construction, which they don't tell you about before you get on the train. Different cars don't open depending on which station you are at. Walking through the train is not a problem if you are not bringing a heavy ebike along with you.
Or a stroller.
*sigh* Maybe Vias new trains will be running by Christmas.
RE: GO Transit - nms - 07-03-2023
(06-30-2023, 04:49 PM)ac3r Wrote: Hardly surprising. GO trains are suburban trains, similar to a German S-Bahn or Montréal's REM. London is way too far away for a GO train there to make any sense. 4 hours each way is way too long.
Would be nice if VIA could run more frequently but that's asking a lot. Plus, getting the freight operators to cooperate is always a challenge.
The quoted article suggested that VIA Trains 82 and 83 would return, but the route would be London-Brantford-Toronto. I would not be surprised if GO Transit stretches a little further west to ultimately terminate at Stratford 10-20 years from now.
RE: GO Transit - danbrotherston - 07-03-2023
(07-03-2023, 08:46 AM)nms Wrote:(06-30-2023, 04:49 PM)ac3r Wrote: Hardly surprising. GO trains are suburban trains, similar to a German S-Bahn or Montréal's REM. London is way too far away for a GO train there to make any sense. 4 hours each way is way too long.
Would be nice if VIA could run more frequently but that's asking a lot. Plus, getting the freight operators to cooperate is always a challenge.
The quoted article suggested that VIA Trains 82 and 83 would return, but the route would be London-Brantford-Toronto. I would not be surprised if GO Transit stretches a little further west to ultimately terminate at Stratford 10-20 years from now.
So how many Via trains from London <-> Kitchener will we see then? 2 or 3? Didn't these trains originally service Sarnia?
I do want to address the comparison between GO and REM/S-Bahn...they aren't really similar, given GO's abysmal frequency, commuter focused service, and massive rolling stock. I do think GO aspires to be a service like that, and that certainly is one option.
But I'd argue a better option would be to aspire to be more like NS. The Netherlands doesn't really have any services like a S-Bahn or REM, they have local transit (a line or two of which could be considered "regional" in that the traverse the Rotterdam/Hague complex--no kidding from the right hill on the coast you can see both cities on the skyline, they're really close together) and then they have NS (and a few other smaller train companies) which operate frequent services very similar to GO. Some EMUs, some double-deckers, some locomotive pulled trains, which traverse the whole of the Netherlands. Unlike GO they are focused on several central cities and some smaller regional cities. The area covered is smaller than southern Ontario, but only by about half, certainly if you scale it up, there are a similar number of cities and regions.
To me, this is a much more useful kind of service than an S-Bahn/REM service because it services many more trip pairs and much more area.
In such a system, GO would obviously operate to London, but London would be a hub in it's own right, and people would take the train from Kitchener to London--something which Metrolinx doesn't seem to think is thing that could happen.
I will say, while it does seem rather magical here, and close to the Randstad (where we are) trains are great, I have heard that things aren't so peachy in the more remote areas, which is something which has caused NS to lose a lot of their franchises and hence Arriva and other train operators are operating in the north of the country. And I do think that being a little more spread out means that Toronto does need a lot of focus, something that our toxic political environment probably wouldn't work with a single train operator. But at the same time, it is just so frustrating that I can take the train to the beach here, but in Canada, I have to sit for hours in traffic trying to get to Wasaga...
RE: GO Transit - nms - 07-04-2023
Kitchener to London is currently served by two VIA trains:
- Trains 84 (eg leaving London for Kitchener at 9:54)
- Train 87 (eg leaving Kitchener for London at 19:18).
Trains 85 and 86 (I think this was the numbered pair) used to also run this route, beginning in Sarnia and terminating in Toronto. 85/86 was dropped when GO added their London service and I think it also dovetailed with VIA reducing its overall vehicle inventory as cars wore out and the replacements hadn't arrived yet.
Sean Marshall has created this GIS map of Canadian train services circa 1955. Southern Ontario had dozens of small passenger routes with more than a dozen different routes that could get a passenger to a beach.
Will GO ever switch to more than one type of consist? Or invest in other types of vehicles beyond the current push-pull? If they do, and CN and CP(KC) are willing to play ball, there might be a chance of improved rail service beyond the current "every trip must terminate at Union Station" mindset.
RE: GO Transit - danbrotherston - 07-04-2023
(07-04-2023, 07:38 AM)nms Wrote: Kitchener to London is currently served by two VIA trains:
- Trains 84 (eg leaving London for Kitchener at 9:54)
- Train 87 (eg leaving Kitchener for London at 19:18).
Trains 85 and 86 (I think this was the numbered pair) used to also run this route, beginning in Sarnia and terminating in Toronto. 85/86 was dropped when GO added their London service and I think it also dovetailed with VIA reducing its overall vehicle inventory as cars wore out and the replacements hadn't arrived yet.
Sean Marshall has created this GIS map of Canadian train services circa 1955. Southern Ontario had dozens of small passenger routes with more than a dozen different routes that could get a passenger to a beach.
Will GO ever switch to more than one type of consist? Or invest in other types of vehicles beyond the current push-pull? If they do, and CN and CP(KC) are willing to play ball, there might be a chance of improved rail service beyond the current "every trip must terminate at Union Station" mindset.
Interesting map! Thanks for the clarification on train numbers, I forgot reverse trains were numbered differently derp. Or maybe I was just hopeful.
Are you telling me that Via rail finally decommissioned the...what must be 70 year old cars they were running on the London line?
FWIW...I don't actually expect our rail service to improve anything but incrementally.
I'm very cynical these days...I don't think we're going to see significant change to our society for a while, despite the fact that we are not at a point where without significant change, climate change will be utterly destructive. I expect we will continue BAU right up until the point where our society fails for any number of reasons. And it's not far off...Charles Marohn talked about this...and "failure" isn't what people think. There won't be gangs roaming the street playing guitars that spray fire...nothing like in the movies. Just one day, the water won't be safe to drink, we'll get used to electrical failures. We won't be able to buy new phones anymore. The internet will become provincial...all sorts of little changes, little regressions, until eventually, our society is unrecognizable.
RE: GO Transit - KevinL - 07-04-2023
I'm not sure what stock Via is currently using but the Siemens Venture sets will be coming in over the next few years and will cover all Corridor services. Once they have the full complement I imagine frequency can improve.
RE: GO Transit - panamaniac - 07-04-2023
I think the new trainsets are only going to maintain the existing levels of service.
RE: GO Transit - nms - 07-05-2023
I have hope that once the existing trainsets are coming into service, and given that Ontario Northland tacked their trainset order onto the tailend of VIA's order, that there is a chance that it will be easier for future management to add to their fleets (either VIA, GO, Ontario Northland, or their respective governments). All of VIA's equipment, including the LRC sets, were inherited from CN and/or CP.
I keep hoping for incremental improvements in railway transportation to the point that continual improvement becomes business-as-usual rather than a frill open to political whims. While Metrolinx is moving at a glacial pace with their improvements, they are at least moving forwards. Hopefully, and where railway tracks or corridors exist, there will be the option to introduce service or otherwise keep improving existing railway service in the province.
RE: GO Transit - danbrotherston - 07-05-2023
(07-05-2023, 06:22 AM)nms Wrote: I have hope that once the existing trainsets are coming into service, and given that Ontario Northland tacked their trainset order onto the tailend of VIA's order, that there is a chance that it will be easier for future management to add to their fleets (either VIA, GO, Ontario Northland, or their respective governments). All of VIA's equipment, including the LRC sets, were inherited from CN and/or CP.
I keep hoping for incremental improvements in railway transportation to the point that continual improvement becomes business-as-usual rather than a frill open to political whims. While Metrolinx is moving at a glacial pace with their improvements, they are at least moving forwards. Hopefully, and where railway tracks or corridors exist, there will be the option to introduce service or otherwise keep improving existing railway service in the province.
The problem with "slow but incremental progress" is that it doesn't occur in a vacuum. If we very gradually add train service, but rapidly expand roads and develop more sprawl we are actually losing ground, not gaining it.
RE: GO Transit - KevinL - 07-05-2023
(07-05-2023, 06:22 AM)nms Wrote: I have hope that once the existing trainsets are coming into service, and given that Ontario Northland tacked their trainset order onto the tailend of VIA's order, that there is a chance that it will be easier for future management to add to their fleets (either VIA, GO, Ontario Northland, or their respective governments).
The good news is that these Siemens units that Via and ON are purchasing are being built pretty standard for the North American market, including for Amtrak and Brightline. Ordering more should be relatively straightforward.
RE: GO Transit - nms - 07-06-2023
(07-05-2023, 07:30 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: The problem with "slow but incremental progress" is that it doesn't occur in a vacuum. If we very gradually add train service, but rapidly expand roads and develop more sprawl we are actually losing ground, not gaining it.I'm not sure how quickly major road expansion actually occurs. For instance, the Highway 8/401 interchange expansion plus the widening of the 401 east of Waterloo Region felt like it took the best part of 15 years without including the planning work that happened before the first shovel hit the ground. Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph has been on the books for the best part of 40 years but it hasn't exactly roared out of the gate.
For better or for worse, gone are the days when a railway (or anything else that large) can be built halfway across the country in a decade. (Excluding the the existing railways that it absorbed, the CPR was built from 1875 to 1885 between southern Ontario and BC).