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+--- Thread: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) (/showthread.php?tid=509)
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - panamaniac - 12-01-2020
(12-01-2020, 10:00 PM)ac3r Wrote: Another decade long Auburn hole in the ground - yay...
Apart from anything else, a faster pace could risk flooding the market, no?
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - ac3r - 12-01-2020
(12-01-2020, 10:08 PM)panamaniac Wrote:(12-01-2020, 10:00 PM)ac3r Wrote: Another decade long Auburn hole in the ground - yay...
Apart from anything else, a faster pace could risk flooding the market, no?
It's possible - I don't really pay attention to real estate markets even tho I work in architecture, so I don't know much about this. But even so, Waterloo Region is the fastest growing region in all of Canada so you'd think they would want to complete this as soon as possible so that they can continue to build even more developments. The demand for housing is there and I have no doubt that if they rushed to build this in <5 years (kinda like how fast CityPlace in Toronto went up) that they'd have every unit occupied ASAP and would wish they built more to appeal to that demand.
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - westwardloo - 12-02-2020
As bland as City Place is, I would take that any day from a developer like Auburn. Call me cynic, but I don't have much faith in this master plan. Seems like a glorified tower in the park kind of development. Lots of green space around the towers, and dead end private roads. Then a small little park that is smaller than the parking lot beside it. The main BLVD running through the property should have run from Sterling to Bordon making more of a grid network. No thought on how to uncover the creek running under the site and no connection to the neighbourhood south west of the train tracks. I do like the eastern corner of the development, not sure it will be a destination within Kitchener though.
Too late now I guess, we will just have to wait and see what Auburn has in store for us. Maybe they will splurge and spend some money on a couple different architects to design the buildings to give it a unique feel. (fingers cross on a Hariri Pontarini, Diamond Schmitt, Temple or even a Quadrangle).
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - tomh009 - 12-02-2020
One thing to remember is that the property was for sale for two years, and any developer could have snapped it up and created a fabulous development project with beautiful design and put it up in five years. Maybe.
The reality is that Auburn was willing to take the chance and invest in the future of the Schneiders site, in line with the city's vision, where others were not. I do give them credit for that, even if the site will not be an architectural masterpiece.
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - Rainrider22 - 12-02-2020
(12-02-2020, 09:47 AM)westwardloo Wrote: As bland as City Place is, I would take that any day from a developer like Auburn. Call me cynic, but I don't have much faith in this master plan. Seems like a glorified tower in the park kind of development. Lots of green space around the towers, and dead end private roads. Then a small little park that is smaller than the parking lot beside it. The main BLVD running through the property should have run from Sterling to Bordon making more of a grid network. No thought on how to uncover the creek running under the site and no connection to the neighbourhood south west of the train tracks. I do like the eastern corner of the development, not sure it will be a destination within Kitchener though.If you are so opposed to it, Why dont you sketch up some ideas and forward it to them and promote yourself. Maybe they will like your ideas.
Too late now I guess, we will just have to wait and see what Auburn has in store for us. Maybe they will splurge and spend some money on a couple different architects to design the buildings to give it a unique feel. (fingers cross on a Hariri Pontarini, Diamond Schmitt, Temple or even a Quadrangle).
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - panamaniac - 12-02-2020
(12-02-2020, 10:22 AM)tomh009 Wrote: One thing to remember is that the property was for sale for two years, and any developer could have snapped it up and created a fabulous development project with beautiful design and put it up in five years. Maybe.
The reality is that Auburn was willing to take the chance and invest in the future of the Schneiders site, in line with the city's vision, where others were not. I do give them credit for that, even if the site will not be an architectural masterpiece.
It will be interesting to see how much impact public input will have. Does Auburn have a track record of adjusting it's developments in response to public input?
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - westwardloo - 12-02-2020
(12-02-2020, 10:40 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote:I merely pointed out reasons I think this masterplan is flawed, which I thought was the point of these forums. What is it about the masterplan that you like or think is going to be a successful addition to Kitchener's urban fabric? I might give it a quick go this weekend for fun to see what I can come up with, but I am not trying to promote myself. I am not a trained city planner, nor am I looking to start a business that could take on a project of this magnitude. I can have criticism to a project without the need to provide a solutions. Firms get paid good money to produce these master plans, doesn't mean I have to agree with the final design.(12-02-2020, 09:47 AM)westwardloo Wrote: As bland as City Place is, I would take that any day from a developer like Auburn. Call me cynic, but I don't have much faith in this master plan. Seems like a glorified tower in the park kind of development. Lots of green space around the towers, and dead end private roads. Then a small little park that is smaller than the parking lot beside it. The main BLVD running through the property should have run from Sterling to Bordon making more of a grid network. No thought on how to uncover the creek running under the site and no connection to the neighbourhood south west of the train tracks. I do like the eastern corner of the development, not sure it will be a destination within Kitchener though.If you are so opposed to it, Why dont you sketch up some ideas and forward it to them and promote yourself. Maybe they will like your ideas.
Too late now I guess, we will just have to wait and see what Auburn has in store for us. Maybe they will splurge and spend some money on a couple different architects to design the buildings to give it a unique feel. (fingers cross on a Hariri Pontarini, Diamond Schmitt, Temple or even a Quadrangle).
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - Rainrider22 - 12-02-2020
(12-02-2020, 12:16 PM)westwardloo Wrote:I was just saying, give it a whirl... You never know what might happen when you try. No one said you cant have an opinion, albeit it find way to much negativity in general on here.(12-02-2020, 10:40 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: If you are so opposed to it, Why dont you sketch up some ideas and forward it to them and promote yourself. Maybe they will like your ideas.I merely pointed out reasons I think this masterplan is flawed, which I thought was the point of these forums. What is it about the masterplan that you like or think is going to be a successful addition to Kitchener's urban fabric? I might give it a quick go this weekend for fun to see what I can come up with, but I am not trying to promote myself. I am not a trained city planner, nor am I looking to start a business that could take on a project of this magnitude. I can have criticism to a project without the need to provide a solutions. Firms get paid good money to produce these master plans, doesn't mean I have to agree with the final design.
Companies are spending a lot of money to develop in Kitchener because they see good things happening and want to be in on it... I am pretty sure they dont sit in a boardroom and say hey, lets design an awful project that wont sell..
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - Acitta - 12-03-2020
The Record: Development back on track at site of Kitchener’s former Schneiders meat processing plant
"The entire development — anticipated to wrap up in 2030 — will be built in four phases, beginning in the spring or early summer of 2021. Currently, work is underway to help expedite the process with the city to get approval to begin building."
"As buildings are completed and become ready for occupancy, tenants will be able to start moving in before the 2030 completion. Gayowsky said that will likely start in mid to late 2022."
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - Momo26 - 12-03-2020
So while we should definately welcome and listen to investors who would have otherwise looked past K-W is great! This should encouraged and we should go out of our way to make them feel welcomed...however; just because we have had a slow history of urban development (Not so much past 6 years though!), we should also be somewhat picky with what is going in. Afterall, those buildings aren't going to be going anywhere. Let's not build dogs of buildings...we can have input/baseline requirements...
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - Momo26 - 12-03-2020
^ westwardloo - let's start a design, planning and development company...run it!...you down?
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - panamaniac - 12-03-2020
(12-03-2020, 02:46 PM)Momo26 Wrote: So while we should definately welcome and listen to investors who would have otherwise looked past K-W is great! This should encouraged and we should go out of our way to make them feel welcomed...however; just because we have had a slow history of urban development (Not so much past 6 years though!), we should also be somewhat picky with what is going in. Afterall, those buildings aren't going to be going anywhere. Let's not build dogs of buildings...we can have input/baseline requirements...I hear you, but I think that the Kitchener mentality remains one of "beggars can't be choosers" in terms of new development, at least at the City level. Whether the boom of the last few years has changed that mentality, I have my doubts.
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - westwardloo - 12-03-2020
(12-03-2020, 02:48 PM)Momo26 Wrote: ^ westwardloo - let's start a design, planning and development company...run it!...you down?Of course! Unfortunately, I don't have the funds to start a development company. If I ever won the lottery one of the first things I would do is start a development company. With specific standards on design and city building. I guess you have to play the lottery for a chance to win it... damn my plan has fallen apart already.
I do think that some members of this forum could get together (Post Covid) to create a unsanctioned Urban Design Review Panel. That could submit reports to council / planning department regarding developments. At least let city staff/ council/ developer/ Architects and construction companies know the pro-development people in the community still expect a certain standard.
Accepting everything and anything is exactly how Northdale happened. I don't think everything in that community poorly designed, but the unfortunately the vast majority of it is.
All we have seen is a concept from Auburn on for this site, so I guess I can't be too critical yet. They plan on starting construction this year though, so I would expect to see a render of phase one relatively soon.
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - ac3r - 12-04-2020
I am giving Auburn some faith that this won't be the worst thing ever. The designs are certainly a step above Barrelyards, but I think the repetitiveness of this project will cause it to visually suffer. All the high-rises are the same, the mid-rises are the same and the town/row houses are the same. That said, it's bringing a lot of people into the core and that's a positive thing.
Ultimately, the region has now approved the Rockway PARTS plan for this neighbourhood. While what gets built will be up to developers more so than the city, this plan to redevelop the area around these transit stations will vastly transform how this area will look. There will be a focus on building high density residential and office buildings all over the area. The Metz is merely one, very minor part of this vision. More here, if you've never seen this plan: https://www.kitchener.ca/en/resourcesGeneral/Documents/DSD_PLAN_PARTS-Rockway-Plan.pdf
RE: The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment) - Momo26 - 12-05-2020
Huge document - thanks. Lots to soak in.