Cycling in Waterloo Region - Printable Version +- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com) +-- Forum: Waterloo Region Works (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=14) +--- Forum: Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25) +--- Thread: Cycling in Waterloo Region (/showthread.php?tid=186) Pages:
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RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - MidTowner - 07-13-2016 From the Record: Father of teen killed cycling wants training for young riders Quote:WATERLOO — The father of a 19-year-old teen who was killed after she was struck by a sport utility vehicle while riding her bike last week wants cyclists to know the rules of the road and to follow them.This article follows another a few days ago that talked about similar calls for more training on bicycle safety in schools. I have to wonder, if the daughter of an avid cyclist is choosing to break the rules by riding on the sidewalk, what hope is there for kids whose parents don't cycle, but receive some instruction in school? Knowing the rules is important, but I would guess that the likely reason this young woman was riding on the sidewalk was not for ignorance of the rules, but rather the hostile nature of a lot of our roads. Both articles this week also mentioned a 39-year-old rider struck by a transport truck when she was riding on Weber on a sidewalk. The implication is that training would have prevented that, too. I doubt it. I feel very strongly that people on bikes should have enough respect not to ride on the sidewalk, but I try to avoid Weber and find it to be a nightmare. If you need to use that street, I can understand why you might be tempted to ride on the sidewalk, and it seems that many people do. I would expect that the rider who was hit on Weber probably knows that bicycles belong on the street, but simply can't stomach riding in the kind of mixed traffic Weber has. The answer is infrastructure, not more rules. If people are riding on the sidewalk on Weber, put a bike lane there. That's relatively straightforward compared to "more training in schools" and waiting a generation for people to hopefully ride safer. And a lot more likely to actually reduce injuries than mandating helmets. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - panamaniac - 07-13-2016 (06-09-2016, 09:05 AM)MidTowner Wrote: “Total to date” was the wrong term for them to use (there isn’t even an ‘as at’ date on the sign). They just mean “Total.” (07-13-2016, 09:37 AM)MidTowner Wrote: From the Record: Father of teen killed cycling wants training for young riders If I understood the reports correctly, the individual was riding the wrong way down the street, not on the sidewalk. The accident, however, occurred when she entered the cross street without stopping (again, if I read the Record report correctly). There was a third auto/cyclist accident in K-W last week - the Record report did not imply the cyclist was at fault in that accident, as it did in the other two, but I've seen no report of any charges being laid..... RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 09:58 AM)panamaniac Wrote:(07-13-2016, 09:37 AM)MidTowner Wrote: From the Record: Father of teen killed cycling wants training for young riders I'm not sure the police would lay charges in a case like this, they're not required to, and charging a dead person seems...unnecessarily cruel. It doesn't necessarily change the insurance company's view of fault either. As for Midtowner's position, he's absolutely right, the most effective thing we can do to increase compliance with the laws i build safe bike infrastructure. It's well studied. And of course, this is entirely at odds with D'Amato's inflammatory column this morning, who suggests we stop building infrastructure and start licensing cyclists. Insane. That being said, I do feel that education is important, it is useful for cyclists (and future drivers) to know, for example, why cyclists would ride out from parked cars. It doesn't even occur to some drivers that doors may open, and they take it as a personal insult. I've even seen WRPS bike officers fail to ride away from parked cars. So education does have a place I believe, but licensing does not. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 09:37 AM)MidTowner Wrote: The answer is infrastructure, not more rules. If people are riding on the sidewalk on Weber, put a bike lane there. That's relatively straightforward compared to "more training in schools" and waiting a generation for people to hopefully ride safer. And a lot more likely to actually reduce injuries than mandating helmets. Unfortunately, I have to disagree. I see (from behind the wheel, and behind my handlebars) cyclists all the time riding on the sidewalk when there's a bike lane right there. Especially when I'm on my bike, that infuriates me because it gives us a bad name. It's also a bit like saying "people drive bad and roll through stop signs? Well just make them all yeilds!" Or something like that. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - MidTowner - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 09:58 AM)panamaniac Wrote: If I understood the reports correctly, the individual was riding the wrong way down the street, not on the sidewalk. The accident, however, occurred when she entered the cross street without stopping (again, if I read the Record report correctly). There was a third auto/cyclist accident in K-W last week - the Record report did not imply the cyclist was at fault in that accident, as it did in the other two, but I've seen no report of any charges being laid..... Oops, yes, you're correct: the woman was riding on the wrong side of the street, and did not stop for a stop sign. I thought that including that third collision between a bicycle and car in an article about calls for bicycle training was an implication that the cyclist was at fault. But it included no details, so no idea. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Viewfromthe42 - 07-13-2016 Examples like Weber St sidewalk riding takes the old adage a bit further. We don't wait to see people swimming daily across a bridge to decide whether we should build one. We certainly should think of building one when we see people regularly drowning. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - panamaniac - 07-13-2016 (06-09-2016, 09:05 AM)MidTowner Wrote: “Total to date” was the wrong term for them to use (there isn’t even an ‘as at’ date on the sign). They just mean “Total.” (07-13-2016, 10:08 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:(07-13-2016, 09:58 AM)panamaniac Wrote: If I understood the reports correctly, the individual was riding the wrong way down the street, not on the sidewalk. The accident, however, occurred when she entered the cross street without stopping (again, if I read the Record report correctly). There was a third auto/cyclist accident in K-W last week - the Record report did not imply the cyclist was at fault in that accident, as it did in the other two, but I've seen no report of any charges being laid..... I certainly didn't mean to imply such a thing in my post - my reference to "charges" was in reference to the third accident, the details of which the Record did not provide. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - MidTowner - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 10:31 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: Examples like Weber St sidewalk riding takes the old adage a bit further. We don't wait to see people swimming daily across a bridge to decide whether we should build one. We certainly should think of building one when we see people regularly drowning. Well-put. I mean, in the case of Weber, we know anecdotally that there is demand to use the street, since it’s not uncommon to see cyclists riding on the sidewalk. We have a case here of someone being injured riding on the sidewalk there. It seems appropriate to get a good handle on many people either brave that dangerous street, or break the rules by riding on the sidewalk alongside it, and offer some safe and legal alternative if there is already demand. Thanks, danbrotherston, for bringing up the Record’s opinion piece. By the way, it sure enough mentions the City of Kitchener's “free valet parking” as one of the “special services” offered to cyclists. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 10:38 AM)panamaniac Wrote: I certainly didn't mean to imply such a thing in my post - my reference to "charges" was in reference to the third accident, the details of which the Record did not provide. My mistake, my apologies. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 10:13 AM)Canard Wrote: Unfortunately, I have to disagree. I see (from behind the wheel, and behind my handlebars) cyclists all the time riding on the sidewalk when there's a bike lane right there. Especially when I'm on my bike, that infuriates me because it gives us a bad name. Your anecdote notwithstanding, it is well studied, while a bike lane doesn't entirely eliminate sidewalk cycling it is the most effective thing you can do to reduce it. And yes, not everyone is comfortable riding in a bike lane, that is why better bike lanes are even more effective, segregated lanes for example. And no, it's not like saying all stop signs should be yields, nobody fails to stop at a stop sign out of fear for their lives, they do so out of laziness, drivers and cyclists alike, there is a difference. That being said, you should still consider human nature, whether for self preservation or laziness. What exactly *is* wrong with your driving example, if people aren't stopping at a particular stop sign, why should we not consider whether a stop sign appropriate here, or if some other traffic control device would be better. And compliance *is* already a consideration when putting a stop sign in right now. Its why we don't use them for traffic calming. Also worth keeping in mind, in the Netherlands after biking over a 1000 KMs, I can count on one hand the number of stop signs I saw. Just because they're the norm here doesn't mean there aren't other options. We shouldn't close our minds to such alternatives, they may have something to teach us. When infrastructure doesn't align with its use, or with human nature, people aren't going to abide by it. Then we will need to have to enforcement, and that can be even more expensive than building the right infrastructure in the first place. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - clasher - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 10:13 AM)Canard Wrote:(07-13-2016, 09:37 AM)MidTowner Wrote: The answer is infrastructure, not more rules. If people are riding on the sidewalk on Weber, put a bike lane there. That's relatively straightforward compared to "more training in schools" and waiting a generation for people to hopefully ride safer. And a lot more likely to actually reduce injuries than mandating helmets. I won't fault anyone for riding on the sidewalk; Tiberiu David was killed riding in the bike lane on University Avenue. Bike lanes aren't really anything more than illusions of safety. Often times around here they're full of broken glass and other detritus. I don't really condone riding on the sidewalks and it's not something I do myself but I think a lot of people have well-justified fears about riding in bike lanes along the busy roads in this region. There's also the demographics of sidewalk cyclists to consider, many people have no other choice but to ride their bikes and they aren't the kind of people that have time to take a cycling safety class or ever had the opportunity to get online and use strava or something to figure out the best bike routes. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 11:28 AM)clasher Wrote: I won't fault anyone for riding on the sidewalk; Tiberiu David was killed riding in the bike lane on University Avenue. Bike lanes aren't really anything more than illusions of safety. Often times around here they're full of broken glass and other detritus. I don't really condone riding on the sidewalks and it's not something I do myself but I think a lot of people have well-justified fears about riding in bike lanes along the busy roads in this region. There's also the demographics of sidewalk cyclists to consider, many people have no other choice but to ride their bikes and they aren't the kind of people that have time to take a cycling safety class or ever had the opportunity to get online and use strava or something to figure out the best bike routes. I definitely have the same feeling, even as a pedestrian I try not to be annoyed by cyclists on the sidewalk, and I'm perfectly happy if they move out of my way (I've nearly been run down by one moving at high speed with no lights on, that I was a little peeved about), and although I don't do it while riding, every time I'm passed by a car while in a bike lane and watch them drift in and out of the bike lane, and then catch up and see they're on a phone, or searching for something, or eating food with a knife and fork (I kid you not), I think, gosh, any moment, that could just be it for me. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 07-13-2016 I would love to ride on the sidewalk. I'd feel safer. But I can't because it's against the law, so I don't do it. This is why I don't ride Victoria or Weber and will take side roads around them. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 07-13-2016 (07-13-2016, 12:04 PM)Canard Wrote: I would love to ride on the sidewalk. I'd feel safer. But I can't because it's against the law, so I don't do it. This is why I don't ride Victoria or Weber and will take side roads around them. That's definitely a commendable position, I am always a bit torn when I use multi-use trails, especially in the boulevard, because I don't dismount for intersections. It's a reason I also avoid using them, I feel the infrastructure is just a trap, at this point all it would take is some paint and signs to make them legal. RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 07-13-2016 I just don't even want to deal with the anxiety of dealing with confrontation if someone were to come up and say "Why are you riding on this" and have to explain it's a MUT. I'll ride for 20 minutes extra just to avoid it. |