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+--- Thread: Cycling in Waterloo Region (/showthread.php?tid=186)
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RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 02-12-2019
Agreed Jamincan..... the only issue we have seen is people parking in them. This will stop that.
If only we were all Regional staff & engineers, eh?
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Spokes - 02-12-2019
Was there ever any reasoning for not doing this in the first place? I hate when projects need to have things added onto them that should have been there to begin with.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 02-12-2019
Yeah, me too - as a designer we call it "scope creep" and it's the bane of my existence. Customers can't see what they want until something is fully designed and built, and then they change their mind on what they want, and want you to retrofit in a bandaid solution.
It's absolutely infuriating, and always results in a less-than-perfect end result.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 02-12-2019
(02-12-2019, 10:43 PM)Spokes Wrote: Was there ever any reasoning for not doing this in the first place? I hate when projects need to have things added onto them that should have been there to begin with.
Regional engineers believed that a roll curb would serve as sufficient separation from traffic, and the BIA was against bollards (plus there really isn't room).
I do agree with you however, this is something that should have been foreseeable. I definitely raised it at all of the PICs that we had on this subject, but as a non-expert, the engineers, who should know better, are the ones who make the decision.
It is unfortunate that the design must now be retrofitted, with what is in my opinion, still a substandard design using flex bollards.
However, it's worth noting, that the regional engineers, actually see flex bollards as the "best" solution, preferable to barrier curbs, as they are recommending this for the entirety of the project...in theory if they had identified vehicle incursions as a problem with roll curbs at the beginning of the project, we'd still have ended up here...
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Spokes - 02-13-2019
How are they better than barrier curbs? Really??
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 02-13-2019
(02-13-2019, 01:12 AM)Spokes Wrote: How are they better than barrier curbs? Really??
And, if roll curbs here, why not roll curbs everywhere?
Which seems absurd. To me roll curbs are just an invitation to motor vehicle operators to drive wherever. Whereas I thought the original deal (from 100 years ago) was pedestrians give up the middle of the road, and motor vehicles stay the H (or F, if you prefer) off the sidewalk; and this is enforced by an unmissable “thunk” administered to any motor vehicle violating the agreement.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 02-13-2019
(02-13-2019, 01:12 AM)Spokes Wrote: How are they better than barrier curbs? Really??
I agree with you. I don't see it. But regional engineers (and city actually) for some reason have a great love. From LRT tracks to bike lanes, even a few sidewalks.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 02-13-2019
Do we know for sure that the BIA is 100% responsible for this failed design? I keep reading that here but this is the only place I've ever heard of it.
Who all will be speaking at the next meeting to protest the new design changes? What suggestions will you be making and discussing with staff in place of the flex bollards?
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 02-13-2019
(02-13-2019, 10:02 AM)Canard Wrote: Do we know for sure that the BIA is 100% responsible for this failed design? I keep reading that here but this is the only place I've ever heard of it.
Who all will be speaking at the next meeting to protest the new design changes? What suggestions will you be making and discussing with staff in place of the flex bollards?
I don't think the BIA is 100% responsible, they're a contributing factor at best. I know they were directly consulted and Regional staff have occasionally verbally suggested that the BIA would be opposed, but certainly staff also agreed with this.
I'm not sure if I will go to the next meeting or not, it might depend on if staff know if there's anyone opposing the changes who will show up...and then I might go speak in support. If I was curious enough to know why they switched to flex bollards, I'd email staff directly instead of asking in the meeting...and I still may ask, but I'll wait till the full report comes out on Friday.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Spokes - 02-13-2019
(02-13-2019, 07:57 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:(02-13-2019, 01:12 AM)Spokes Wrote: How are they better than barrier curbs? Really??
I agree with you. I don't see it. But regional engineers (and city actually) for some reason have a great love. From LRT tracks to bike lanes, even a few sidewalks.
The only benefit I could see the argument in making is the ease in which a cyclist could roll up onto or off of the bike lane from the road. But still, not the right call.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 02-13-2019
Meanwhile, in Australia:
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - jamincan - 02-13-2019
(02-13-2019, 11:44 AM)Spokes Wrote:(02-13-2019, 07:57 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: I agree with you. I don't see it. But regional engineers (and city actually) for some reason have a great love. From LRT tracks to bike lanes, even a few sidewalks.
The only benefit I could see the argument in making is the ease in which a cyclist could roll up onto or off of the bike lane from the road. But still, not the right call.
I mean, what if a car was parked in the bike lane? A cyclist needs a safe way to get around the parked cars!
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Spokes - 02-13-2019
True. I was assuming cars wouldn't be in the lanes. Which clearly based on recent history, is dumb.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - KevinL - 02-13-2019
I still have no idea how they thought roll curbs would be a deterrent. Many, many roadside parking facilities have a roll curb separating them from the active roadway, and these looked precisely like those.
Maybe if the entire lane had been painted 'bike path green', but that was also ruled out.
It boggles the mind that anyone felt this would work as designed.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Spokes - 02-13-2019
Well...they do love bike path green paint.