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+--- Thread: Toronto transit projects (/showthread.php?tid=527)
RE: Toronto transit projects - Pheidippides - 08-05-2017
The article says the partners are Nova Bus and New Flyer though.
RE: Toronto transit projects - Canard - 08-05-2017
Probably was just a generic photo then. Strange it would be two different bus manufacturers - with a fleet of only 6 I would have thought they'd go with 6 all the same.
RE: Toronto transit projects - Markster - 08-05-2017
(08-05-2017, 01:50 PM)Canard Wrote: Probably was just a generic photo then. Strange it would be two different bus manufacturers - with a fleet of only 6 I would have thought they'd go with 6 all the same.
It's a test. They want to evaluate different options. If they decide to roll out a larger fleet, they'll certainly pick one model from these two.
RE: Toronto transit projects - Canard - 08-05-2017
Neat, will be interesting to see how they pick a "standard" kind of charger and pantograph system.
RE: Toronto transit projects - Canard - 08-22-2017
I'll jump the gun here before someone posts the article, and give an explanation:
The Star is reporting that Bombardier shipped "incomplete" trains to the TTC just to make a delivery deadline before the end of the year.
While true, it's a misleading headline.
There was an upcoming scheduling conflict (induced by CP) around the Holidays - so, instead of getting caught in that and potentially missing a deadline, Bombardier and the TTC came up with the plan to ship the cars early, slightly incomplete - and send down folks to do final assembly in Toronto. All the trains went into service before the end of the year.
It was a creative solution to a problem created by CP - not Bombardier, or the TTC.
RE: Toronto transit projects - MacBerry - 08-25-2017
(08-22-2017, 08:08 PM)Canard Wrote: I'll jump the gun here before someone posts the article, and give an explanation:
The Star is reporting that Bombardier shipped "incomplete" trains to the TTC just to make a delivery deadline before the end of the year.
While true, it's a misleading headline.
There was an upcoming scheduling conflict (induced by CP) around the Holidays - so, instead of getting caught in that and potentially missing a deadline, Bombardier and the TTC came up with the plan to ship the cars early, slightly incomplete - and send down folks to do final assembly in Toronto. All the trains went into service before the end of the year.
It was a creative solution to a problem created by CP - not Bombardier, or the TTC.
How can "true" be misleading? Media should do more to embarrass this morally bankrupt company.
Oh and backed by billions of taxpayer dollars in the last few years, and I don't care which division. Management ineptitude at it's best.
RE: Toronto transit projects - ijmorlan - 08-25-2017
(08-25-2017, 11:16 AM)MacBerry Wrote:(08-22-2017, 08:08 PM)Canard Wrote: I'll jump the gun here before someone posts the article, and give an explanation:
The Star is reporting that Bombardier shipped "incomplete" trains to the TTC just to make a delivery deadline before the end of the year.
While true, it's a misleading headline.
There was an upcoming scheduling conflict (induced by CP) around the Holidays - so, instead of getting caught in that and potentially missing a deadline, Bombardier and the TTC came up with the plan to ship the cars early, slightly incomplete - and send down folks to do final assembly in Toronto. All the trains went into service before the end of the year.
It was a creative solution to a problem created by CP - not Bombardier, or the TTC.
How can "true" be misleading? Media should do more to embarrass this morally bankrupt company.
Oh and backed by billions of taxpayer dollars in the last few years, and I don't care which division. Management ineptitude at it's best.
True can easily be misleading.
In this case, I don’t know the details and obviously don’t trust Bombardier, but say the choice is either:
1) ship the vehicles December 1 with one week of work still to do; or
2) ship the vehicles January 1 complete.
This could happen if the rails are busy in December and therefore can’t be shipped between December 6 and 31.
Then option (1) gets the completed vehicles on TTC property before the end of the year while option (2) does not.
But the headline makes it sound like Bombardier just shipped whatever they had at the time in order to slide in under the wire.
This is not to excuse Bombardier’s missing of other deadlines, but what Canard is saying about this specific incident could be perfectly reasonable (and he’s more likely than most to know).
RE: Toronto transit projects - Canard - 08-25-2017
Thank you, that's exactly what happened.
The headlines are written to inflame people who only read headlines, and will misinterpret what actually happened.
Hate the media so much.
RE: Toronto transit projects - MacBerry - 08-25-2017
(08-25-2017, 01:45 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:(08-25-2017, 11:16 AM)MacBerry Wrote: How can "true" be misleading? Media should do more to embarrass this morally bankrupt company.
Oh and backed by billions of taxpayer dollars in the last few years, and I don't care which division. Management ineptitude at it's best.
True can easily be misleading.
In this case, I don’t know the details and obviously don’t trust Bombardier, but say the choice is either:
1) ship the vehicles December 1 with one week of work still to do; or
2) ship the vehicles January 1 complete.
This could happen if the rails are busy in December and therefore can’t be shipped between December 6 and 31.
Then option (1) gets the completed vehicles on TTC property before the end of the year while option (2) does not.
But the headline makes it sound like Bombardier just shipped whatever they had at the time in order to slide in under the wire.
This is not to excuse Bombardier’s missing of other deadlines, but what Canard is saying about this specific incident could be perfectly reasonable (and he’s more likely than most to know).
Media should do more to embarrass this morally bankrupt company.
RE: Toronto transit projects - MacBerry - 08-25-2017
(08-25-2017, 03:49 PM)Canard Wrote: Thank you, that's exactly what happened.
The headlines are written to inflame people who only read headlines, and will misinterpret what actually happened.
Hate the media so much.
Media should do more to embarrass this morally bankrupt company.
RE: Toronto transit projects - Pheidippides - 08-26-2017
Or, Bombardier, knowing that it is a busy shipping time could have said, "Hmm, we need to have these vehicles to the TTC by X date, which means we need to ship them by Y date, which means we need to finish them by Z date." It isn't that hard to work back from a deadline and build in a little buffer room to boot.
RE: Toronto transit projects - timio - 08-26-2017
(08-25-2017, 03:49 PM)Canard Wrote: Hate the media so much.
It's unfortunate that there are a number of media outlets in existence that thrive on exaggeration for sales. It puts a shroud over those outlets that continue to produce fact-based quality journalism which is very much needed in our society that has enshrined "alternative facts", gross exaggeration, and even outright lies.
I don't think it's good to generalize about the media based on these outlets that have drifted from the original ideals.. just leads to more distrust (whether merited or not) that will continue to push the quality outlets to the fringes and eventual extinction.
RE: Toronto transit projects - tomh009 - 08-28-2017
(08-26-2017, 11:11 AM)Pheidippides Wrote: Or, Bombardier, knowing that it is a busy shipping time could have said, "Hmm, we need to have these vehicles to the TTC by X date, which means we need to ship them by Y date, which means we need to finish them by Z date." It isn't that hard to work back from a deadline and build in a little buffer room to boot.
Yes, but if you miss date Z, you now need to figure out a Plan B for shippng (or would that be Plan A, as in Antonov?).
RE: Toronto transit projects - Canard - 09-14-2017
Toronto has put out an RFI for more streetcars.
https://twitter.com/railjournal/status/908265130915450881
Not sure why they think things would be different this time around. China perhaps?
I'm sure all the people who are hating on Bombardier would be thrilled about getting trains from CRRH...
RE: Toronto transit projects - Markster - 09-14-2017
Toronto has their option with Bombardier to order 60 more LRVs at a set price, but one of the points of such options is to reward a good product with a simple contract extension. It's pretty clear that there have been issues with Bombardier, so it is entirely reasonable to solicit quotes from other suppliers.
Then at least the TTC will be able to make a fresh judgement on whether Bombardier has reformed sufficiently, or whether a higher cost at another supplier will be worth it to avoid ongoing headaches.
Also, consider that the TTC is requesting a quote for 100 LRVs. They're already looking to expand beyond the 60 extra units in the Bombardier contract, and if they're going to have a split fleet, it's better to have a 200/100 split, than 260/40. The TTC has no price guarantees from Bombardier beyond the current contract.