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387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C (/showthread.php?tid=206)

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RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - westwardloo - 06-08-2023

(06-07-2023, 04:37 PM)ac3r Wrote: Is it real brick or just pre-assembled panels? Either way I'm glad they went with that colour. It's a nice break from the current trend of white/grey we are seeing everywhere.

I would have kept it all red brick, though, rather than the dark grey they're also using. Then for the section that is currently cinderblock (it'll have signage) I would have used some nice steel or another metal rather than what appears like will be more "ornamental" stucco-like junk. It could have made this look really contemporary yet paying homage to early 20th century industrial heritage the city was once known for.

It's not hard to design a good building...or maybe it is? I'd love to know where half these architects studied. If in my university days I presented buildings like many things we see in our region I'd be failing classes.

[Image: x5hlVcB.jpg]

I wish The Region could get mid-rises like those. I know Europe has its fair share of Architectural stinkers, but by in large most of the cities I have been to are filled with beautiful well thought out mid-rise developments. I just don't understand what is wrong with architecture in Canada? Do our developers just not give a shit? or are our architects just incapable of thoughtful design? Does the lack of historic buildings in Canada cause an indifference to architecture?  It doesn't cost that much more to choose the right materials for a project. 

It's like we just throw exterior cladding at the walls and hope it makes a building.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - tomh009 - 06-08-2023

(06-08-2023, 01:11 AM)nms Wrote:
(06-07-2023, 06:31 PM)tomh009 Wrote: The new pavers are different. One hopes that they will turn out to be more durable.

Cobblestones on European city streets might last the better part of a century, and that's with far more traffic on them.

Is it a salt and snow plow issue? Or is it the more rapid freeze-thaw cycles that we have here?  Do the Finns have cobblestones that last longer?

Of course, every now and then the French pull theirs up and throw them at each other.

Finns do have cobblestones, too. I think the big durability difference is that cobblestones are typically big hunks of granite, rather than the much thinner pavers we use here. The downside is that they are not as smooth or even, but for parking spaces that really should be a non-issue.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - ac3r - 06-08-2023

(06-08-2023, 08:58 AM)westwardloo Wrote: I wish The Region could get mid-rises like those. I know Europe has its fair share of Architectural stinkers, but by in large most of the cities I have been to are filled with beautiful well thought out mid-rise developments. I just don't understand what is wrong with architecture in Canada? Do our developers just not give a shit? or are our architects just incapable of thoughtful design? Does the lack of historic buildings in Canada cause an indifference to architecture?  It doesn't cost that much more to choose the right materials for a project. 

It's like we just throw exterior cladding at the walls and hope it makes a building.

I wish as well. Canada has plenty of good architects as well as architectural institutions. The main problem is the developers. It's they who don't really give a shit about what their buildings look like, they just want them built to recoup their investments.

It's a shame because so much talent gets wasted. It makes the architects frustrated when they are stuck designing these awful buildings, knowing the developers aren't putting much thought into the work. It can begin to cause a talent drain too. I don't know if you've ever been to the University of Waterloo School of Architecture but if you've ever been, have gone to their public exhibitions or have watched lectures on their YouTube channel, you can see just how good these students are. But often they end up graduating and move away to further their career.

I also put some blame on the city. If we had a design panel like Toronto does - where teams of architects, designers, artists, planners etc judge buildings and provide critique to the City of Toronto - then maybe we could get nicer buildings. We also have a lot of little things like requiring setbacks which are quite ugly IMO nor do we often build buildings together. They usually have a space between them (though I understand that at times it's necessary). And yeah we seem to hate midrise buildings. I wish we could follow the City of Toronto and open up all low density neighbourhoods to midrise development.

Unfortunately I don't think there's much we can do apart from suggesting the formation of a design panel and doing stuff like attending public meetings about developments and critiquing the design. At the same time I am not sure I trust the cities or region to implement a design panel correctly.

Like I mentioned...I don't think it's hard to design a good building. Sadly it seems like we lack sufficient local talent. Plus we have so many developers who don't care about the design, they just want something constructed ASAP so even if there are architects doing good work, they get handicapped. HIP and IN8 are good examples. They've developed a few buildings and forced the architects to redesign it in order to save money on materials. The Gaslight District project in Cambridge is one example. I briefly chatted with one of the architects last year or so and she said that they originally had an okay design on the podium but the developer made them redo it to lower costs and that's how it ended up with that awful grey wall covering the podium. I suspect that is what happened with Duke Tower as well because the original design looked much different than the bargain bin cladding and precast monochrome stripes they used.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - dtkvictim - 07-11-2023

Regarding the flowerbeds, I actually think these east end ones might be nicer. At least they add some more "natural" colour, instead of just adding more grey to the existing grey.

[Image: VzTfsA8.jpg]
[Image: 2H6WAi3.jpg]


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - tomh009 - 07-11-2023

I think those brick colours look quite all right. Between this and the Market Flats, it's a massive change to this one-block stretch of King St E.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - panamaniac - 07-11-2023

(07-11-2023, 05:16 PM)tomh009 Wrote: I think those brick colours look quite all right. Between this and the Market Flats, it's a massive change to this one-block stretch of King St E.

I could do without the band that looks like cinder blocks along the top of the first floor.  Something stone-looking might have worked better if they felt they had to break up the brick.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - KevinL - 07-11-2023

(07-11-2023, 05:58 PM)panamaniac Wrote:
(07-11-2023, 05:16 PM)tomh009 Wrote: I think those brick colours look quite all right. Between this and the Market Flats, it's a massive change to this one-block stretch of King St E.

I could do without the band that looks like cinder blocks along the top of the first floor.  Something stone-looking might have worked better if they felt they had to break up the brick.

Pretty sure those are cinder blocks, and a further cladding/signage will obscure it later.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - ac3r - 07-11-2023

(07-11-2023, 04:44 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: Regarding the flowerbeds, I actually think these east end ones might be nicer. At least they add some more "natural" colour, instead of just adding more grey to the existing grey.

I find the late 80s salmon pink a charming aesthetic. If they could go out and power wash all the grime away they would be pretty cool to leave although I have no doubt the city has already budgeted and planned to turn it all grey at some point in the future.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - ac3r - 07-11-2023

Yes the cinderblocks aren't going to remain visible, they'll be adding more façade and signage to that.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - panamaniac - 07-11-2023

Good news, that.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - SF22 - 07-12-2023

Yes, love the red brick! It's such a simple thing that embraces the age of the downtown neighbourhood instead of making everything Modern Greige. I hope whatever cladding gets added over the 1st floor commercial spaces is something that aesthetically fits with the brick to look really classic.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - panamaniac - 07-12-2023

(07-12-2023, 09:01 AM)SF22 Wrote: Yes, love the red brick! It's such a simple thing that embraces the age of the downtown neighbourhood instead of making everything Modern Greige. I hope whatever cladding gets added over the 1st floor commercial spaces is something that aesthetically fits with the brick to look really classic.

Classic Kitchener with red brick would be dark green, but that's unlikely.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - tomh009 - 07-12-2023

I wonder whether the partial top floor is for amenity space, with a rooftop patio next to it?


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - panamaniac - 07-12-2023

(07-12-2023, 02:18 PM)tomh009 Wrote: I wonder whether the partial top floor is for amenity space, with a rooftop patio next to it?

I'm sure I've seen renders showing pergolas on the roof, so I'm thinking yes.


RE: 387-397 King St E and 6 Madison Ave | 2 & 8 fl | U/C - kidgibnick - 07-16-2023

Is it just me, or does it look like two different shades of red brick?!