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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ac3r - 10-26-2022

I'm wondering when they'll start to run train sets. The LRT is starting to get packed during rush hour now. It gets full during school hours as well and I am sure near the universities. However it would take ordering trains now. Though with the delays last time maybe now is a good time to order them.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - neonjoe - 10-26-2022

I’d rather see the 7-8 minute headways before longer trains.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - dtkvictim - 10-26-2022

(10-26-2022, 05:48 PM)ac3r Wrote: I'm wondering when they'll start to run train sets. The LRT is starting to get packed during rush hour now. It gets full during school hours as well and I am sure near the universities. However it would take ordering trains now. Though with the delays last time maybe now is a good time to order them.

Yeah, it can get very packed, especially near the universities. I wonder what the lead time is to getting new trains delivered and tested? And while not required at all AFAIK, it would be nice to have platforms fully kitted out when running sets.

I wonder what the logistics would be for running sets only during rush hour though. Would certain trains stop at the maintenance facility to pick up a second train? How long would that take, and would it require additional trains to fill the gaps in the schedule created during that downtime? If we needed additional trains to fill the gap, and additional trains for the sets, would we then have enough to just run double trains all day? I know lines around the world run variable length trains, so if any of you train nerds know the logistics, I'm curious.

(10-26-2022, 06:20 PM)neonjoe Wrote: I’d rather see the 7-8 minute headways before longer trains.

Agreed. Solves the crowding issue, and provides better service.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bytor - 10-26-2022

(10-26-2022, 06:27 PM)dtkvictim Wrote:
(10-26-2022, 05:48 PM)ac3r Wrote: I'm wondering when they'll start to run train sets. The LRT is starting to get packed during rush hour now. It gets full during school hours as well and I am sure near the universities. However it would take ordering trains now. Though with the delays last time maybe now is a good time to order them.

Yeah, it can get very packed, especially near the universities. I wonder what the lead time is to getting new trains delivered and tested? And while not required at all AFAIK, it would be nice to have platforms fully kitted out when running sets.

I wonder what the logistics would be for running sets only during rush hour though. Would certain trains stop at the maintenance facility to pick up a second train? How long would that take, and would it require additional trains to fill the gaps in the schedule created during that downtime? If we needed additional trains to fill the gap, and additional trains for the sets, would we then have enough to just run double trains all day? I know lines around the world run variable length trains, so if any of you train nerds know the logistics, I'm curious.

(10-26-2022, 06:20 PM)neonjoe Wrote: I’d rather see the 7-8 minute headways before longer trains.

Agreed. Solves the crowding issue, and provides better service.

That will probably never happen. Staffing costs are always one of the biggest budget items of any organisation, and more frequent trains means more staff and those more costs. When we thought 8 minutes was what we were going to get andpeople were calling for reducing the headways down to 6 or 4 minutes instead of train sets, the Region anfd GrandLinq came out with a Baseline Service Plan that never went below 8 minutes and used the train sets instead.

I suspect that we'll get train sets before the headways go below 10 minutes,now that they think everybody is used to that lower than promised level of service, and the lower ridership as a result of the pandemic will be used as an excuse for holding off on expanded service.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 10-26-2022

(10-26-2022, 06:27 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: I wonder what the logistics would be for running sets only during rush hour though. Would certain trains stop at the maintenance facility to pick up a second train? How long would that take, and would it require additional trains to fill the gaps in the schedule created during that downtime? If we needed additional trains to fill the gap, and additional trains for the sets, would we then have enough to just run double trains all day? I know lines around the world run variable length trains, so if any of you train nerds know the logistics, I'm curious.

I don’t know, but here are some thoughts.

Given that there is a stop right next to the maintenance facility, it should be possible to do it there. Run an LRV out of the maintenance facility into Northfield station. Next in-service train comes up behind it and couples, which I believe can be done by basically driving up very slowly until the trains touch and pressing a couple of buttons. It’s not like freight trains which require someone at track level to hook up hoses — it’s all in the coupler.

So I don’t see a need for it to be a significant delay. That being said, as far as I can tell, transit authorities hate building or cutting trains in service. I still feel like it should be possible, but maybe it’s just not feasible to get it working reliably enough in the real world. I’ve thought about it, but never actually run a train system myself.

Another possibility would be to do the same at Conestoga Mall. So the LRV being added would run out of service to Conestoga Mall, then the in service train would hook up with it prior to beginning its return trip. The operator who took the extra LRV up could just ride the in service train back to Northfield to get back to the maintenance facility.

Do similar in reverse to shorten trains. Leaving Conestoga Mall, keep one LRV out of service, coupled to the in service one. At Northfield, uncouple; maintenance personnel have ample time to get the cut off LRV out of the way before the next train comes. I believe uncoupling is even easier than coupling; basically, press the right button and drive away.

But I’d love to know. Actually what I’d really like is a copy of all the documentation from Bombardier. That would be some interesting reading, although I don’t expect to see it on the New York Times bestseller list anytime soon.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 10-27-2022

Or, they can just drive the doubled unit to a terminus (either Conestoga or Fairway), decouple on arrival, and have the two trains depart at different times as separate in-service units.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 10-27-2022

(10-27-2022, 06:23 PM)KevinL Wrote: Or, they can just drive the doubled unit to a terminus (either Conestoga or Fairway), decouple on arrival, and have the two trains depart at different times as separate in-service units.

The whole point is to bring LRVs into and out of service. I suppose you could split up some trains and have others go out of service in their entirety.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - nms - 10-27-2022

Are both platforms typically used at Fairway and Conestoga? Does one train run in to Platform A, the driver gets out for a break, and then the train that was already there leaves from Platform B, leaves next, making room for the next incoming train to arrive at Platform B?  I could imagine that that would be the best location to add a new train.  The driver on break could take the next trainset out.

Apparently, "How long does it take to couple two LRVs?" is difficult to Google to figure out.  The best I could find was this very short, but apparently real-time, video of two units in Edmonton. This Swedish train did it in less than a minute. The only question would be whether anything else needs to be done before the new duo trainset can be put into service.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - dtkvictim - 10-28-2022

(10-27-2022, 11:43 PM)nms Wrote: Are both platforms typically used at Fairway and Conestoga?

No. I have never actually been to the Conestoga station, but only one platform is used at Fairway that I've seen.

But that got me wondering: Why do we have two platforms at Conestoga? Obviously Fairway has two platforms to handle being extended, but what's the reasoning for Conestoga?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 10-28-2022

(10-28-2022, 01:01 AM)dtkvictim Wrote:  Why do we have two platforms at Conestoga? Obviously Fairway has two platforms to handle being extended, but what's the reasoning for Conestoga?

If the line ever gets busy enough that incoming trains need to yield to outgoing, then there's room for both.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - tomh009 - 10-28-2022

(10-26-2022, 06:27 PM)dtkvictim Wrote:
(10-26-2022, 05:48 PM)ac3r Wrote: I'm wondering when they'll start to run train sets. The LRT is starting to get packed during rush hour now. It gets full during school hours as well and I am sure near the universities. However it would take ordering trains now. Though with the delays last time maybe now is a good time to order them.

Yeah, it can get very packed, especially near the universities. I wonder what the lead time is to getting new trains delivered and tested? And while not required at all AFAIK, it would be nice to have platforms fully kitted out when running sets.

How packed is it? No seats, or no standing room? Need to wait for the next train?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 10-28-2022

(10-28-2022, 01:01 AM)dtkvictim Wrote:
(10-27-2022, 11:43 PM)nms Wrote: Are both platforms typically used at Fairway and Conestoga?

No. I have never actually been to the Conestoga station, but only one platform is used at Fairway that I've seen.

But that got me wondering: Why do we have two platforms at Conestoga? Obviously Fairway has two platforms to handle being extended, but what's the reasoning for Conestoga?

I don’t know. It doesn’t make sense to have side platforms at a terminus if both are intended to be used for boarding trains: this is why all TTC subway termini have centre platforms, and this has almost always been true through the subway’s history (I believe the only exception is when the Bloor-Danforth subway initially opened between Keele and Woodbine, which are side-platform stations).

However, as long as only one platform is used for boarding it’s not a problem. What they actually do at Conestoga and Fairway I don’t know, but one possibility is to use the other platform for taking trains out of service: passengers can get out, but nobody is on the platform expecting to be able to board, and the train can sit for a while if needed before moving away. I believe this is done at McCowan station on the Scarborough RT: the eastbound platform is off-only and used only for trains going out of service.

What I wonder is why they double-tracked right to the end of the line. Given the frequencies at which the system is planned to operate for the foreseeable future, I don’t think a 1km single track section at the end of the line would make much difference to operations.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 10-28-2022

(10-28-2022, 12:20 PM)KevinL Wrote:
(10-28-2022, 01:01 AM)dtkvictim Wrote:  Why do we have two platforms at Conestoga? Obviously Fairway has two platforms to handle being extended, but what's the reasoning for Conestoga?

If the line ever gets busy enough that incoming trains need to yield to outgoing, then there's room for both.

If that is the intent, they should have built a centre platform.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ac3r - 10-28-2022

(10-28-2022, 01:01 AM)dtkvictim Wrote:
(10-27-2022, 11:43 PM)nms Wrote: Are both platforms typically used at Fairway and Conestoga?

No. I have never actually been to the Conestoga station, but only one platform is used at Fairway that I've seen.

But that got me wondering: Why do we have two platforms at Conestoga? Obviously Fairway has two platforms to handle being extended, but what's the reasoning for Conestoga?

On rare occasions it'll pull into the less commonly used platform. It's more frequent during rush hour when there's trains every 10 minutes though they don't actually need to do that from what I understand. I just know I've been waiting to catch it before and it pulls into the other side at Fairway Station and there's been a few times I've seen one train leave and another pull in to the other platform (which is odd since even during rush hour they're on a ten minute headway).

As for the reasoning at Conestoga...I have wondered that myself. Maybe they built it for future proofing for future expansion of the line. As we grow, we'll need additional LRT lines in the region. Or when train headways get frequent enough that it's just easier to have two platforms, rather than on switching the tracks over each time. Another reason may be potential mechanical failure of the switches. If one broke for whatever reason, then they could still be guaranteed to go all the way to the terminus rather than stopping at Northfield. ijmorlan also raised a good point re boarding, but I think the reasoning has more to do with future proofing.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - dtkvictim - 10-28-2022

(10-28-2022, 12:32 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(10-26-2022, 06:27 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: Yeah, it can get very packed, especially near the universities. I wonder what the lead time is to getting new trains delivered and tested? And while not required at all AFAIK, it would be nice to have platforms fully kitted out when running sets.

How packed is it? No seats, or no standing room? Need to wait for the next train?

During the 5-6PM rush hour, going through the universities, standing room can be tight. Not bodies pressed against each other, but grow ridership much more and they would be. It's been a bit since I was riding during that time, so I'm not sure how seasonal things are.

When I ride off peak (7-9PM) it's more comfortable, but no guarantee you'll be getting a seat.

I've never needed to wait for another train.