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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 10-10-2019

Sounds rather promising. 


RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - robdrimmie - 10-10-2019

I take the Ion to Mill Street (from Queen St. Station) on the way home occasionally, and have been doing so regularly since the start of October. Until very recently - last week I think but I didn't make specific note - the gate blocking the sidewalk access for folks wanting to turn left onto Ottawa (towards Homer Watson) was closed. I and everyone else going in that direction would cross the small garden to bypass it. Earlier this week (Monday or Tuesday) the gate was open and it's been that way every day since. The padlock lock is still attached and is keeping it in the open position so it appears to be official.

Perhaps some of the rules about pedestrians entering the railway crossing area at the intersection have been eased? Or perhaps they recognized that festers might not be inclined to respect respect it, and propping it open would protect the plants in the garden?

Also on one of my rides home last week the train driver made a general announcement (naming the route and terminal, thanking people for riding, and specifying it was the 510 which I thought was nice) as we were on the curve between Borden and Mill. It sounded like it was scripted and practiced but not yet polished. It hasn't happened again this week though. I'm curious if it's a driver's discretion sort of thing - some drivers are a lot more engaged with passengers than others for example - or if it is preparation in advance of anticipated ridership increases during Oktoberfest.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Spokes - 10-11-2019

I'm excited to see the numbers. Great numbers will definitely be a positive sign

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ac3r - 10-11-2019

(10-10-2019, 08:15 AM)MidTowner Wrote: It's been well over three months of service, and apparently there are still vehicle reliability/automatic control/or maybe some other issues that haven't been disclosed that is preventing Ion from running at the frequency specified in the project agreement.

I'm venting a little about that, but I'm curious if I'm missing some method of communication that GRT is using to provide updates? Does anyone know if we have received any recent info about what the specific problem is and when it's expected to be solved?

I believe the main issue was that service started without ATC being enabled. This resulted in the drivers having to operate trains at a slower speed due to a fair amount of manual control being used. They haven't released any official news about whether or not that is still an issue, but if it is, then it will probably still take a few weeks as they only have limited hours each night to work on large parts of the system/trains.

All things considered, at least we did have a fairly smooth launch. This has been the scene on the Ottawa LRT twice this week simply due to someone holding open the doors for a few seconds in rush hour so they could jump off. The entire network ground to a halt, making thousands of people late. I don't understand how that can happen, because in any other transit system, the doors just try again and then unless you're desperately squeezing yourself between the doors for some pathological reason, they slam hard enough to make you get the hell out of the doorway.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 10-11-2019

In regards to the Ottawa doors, something to do with their mechanism is partly why the system opened so late. So it seems that's not where it needs to be yet.

Closer to home, another Ion-car collision this morning, at King and Agnes.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 10-11-2019

(10-11-2019, 12:29 PM)ac3r Wrote: I believe the main issue was that service started without ATC being enabled. This resulted in the drivers having to operate trains at a slower speed due to a fair amount of manual control being used. They haven't released any official news about whether or not that is still an issue, but if it is, then it will probably still take a few weeks as they only have limited hours each night to work on large parts of the system/trains.

I was on the train last weekend and the display in the cab still says “ATC bypassed call control” so I think it’s still not enabled. Does anybody understand what still needs to be done? Is there work on the cars, or are there problems with the stationary components of the ATC system?

Quote:All things considered, at least we did have a fairly smooth launch. This has been the scene on the Ottawa LRT twice this week simply due to someone holding open the doors for a few seconds in rush hour so they could jump off. The entire network ground to a halt, making thousands of people late. I don't understand how that can happen, because in any other transit system, the doors just try again and then unless you're desperately squeezing yourself between the doors for some pathological reason, they slam hard enough to make you get the hell out of the doorway.

Modern engineers seem to have forgotten how mass transit doors have to work.

I understand that on the Toronto subway, if the doors fail to close 3 times, the train is required to be taken out of service. On top of that, if the doors re-open, they all re-open, not just the one with the problem. I’m not a transit engineer, but given how much these trains cost it is inconceivable that it makes sense to re-open all doors (i.e., it’s not reasonable to say that the system to control the doors separately would be too expensive). Just re-open the one which is signalling a problem and try it again. Then the typical problem scenario would be 23/24 doors close and the remaining one opens and then closes again. Instead they all re-open, then maybe another one has a problem, then another, then the train goes out of service.

Additionally, the “3” seems arbitrary. If the driver presses a button indicating the problem was just somebody blocking the door, I don’t see why it has to count. It’s reasonable for a certain number of actual equipment failures to result in the train being taken out of service, but there is no specific limit on how often people might try to hold a door.

Meanwhile on our system there is no distinction between a door closing because it’s been a few seconds since it opened and it closing because the doors are being closed in order to prepare for departure. The first should not give the chime, and should re-open very easily if it detects any resistance at all or even an object in the way that isn’t touching it (like an elevator); whereas the second should give a chime and should be more insistent about closing (like a subway).

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Acitta - 10-11-2019

This series of tweets explain a lot about how transit doors work. Ken Woods on Twitter

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 10-11-2019

(10-11-2019, 02:48 PM)Acitta Wrote: This series of tweets explain a lot about how transit doors work. Ken Woods on Twitter

That was very interesting, but unfortunately also convinced me that the designers are getting ahead of themselves with the automation. In particular, apparently the only way of moving a train with an open door involves making it invisible to all the signalling equipment. That is crazy. There should be a way of telling the train to ignore the open door, but still exist as far as the signalling system is concerned. Of course this shouldn’t be done carelessly and should require authorization from central control.

When the problem with the train is just a stuck door, the only aspect of moving the train that matters is passenger interaction. Once the train has either been evacuated or the door area blocked with a tarp (or people just moved away from that part of the car — we’re not completely stupid, in general), the train should drive exactly like any other train. He talks about needing to use written movement authority for a train with a stuck door. That should only be needed for a train with broken CBTC equipment. What next, the train won’t move if the air conditioning is broken?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - danbrotherston - 10-11-2019

(10-11-2019, 01:46 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(10-11-2019, 12:29 PM)ac3r Wrote: I believe the main issue was that service started without ATC being enabled. This resulted in the drivers having to operate trains at a slower speed due to a fair amount of manual control being used. They haven't released any official news about whether or not that is still an issue, but if it is, then it will probably still take a few weeks as they only have limited hours each night to work on large parts of the system/trains.

I was on the train last weekend and the display in the cab still says “ATC bypassed call control” so I think it’s still not enabled. Does anybody understand what still needs to be done? Is there work on the cars, or are there problems with the stationary components of the ATC system?

Quote:All things considered, at least we did have a fairly smooth launch. This has been the scene on the Ottawa LRT twice this week simply due to someone holding open the doors for a few seconds in rush hour so they could jump off. The entire network ground to a halt, making thousands of people late. I don't understand how that can happen, because in any other transit system, the doors just try again and then unless you're desperately squeezing yourself between the doors for some pathological reason, they slam hard enough to make you get the hell out of the doorway.

Modern engineers seem to have forgotten how mass transit doors have to work.

I understand that on the Toronto subway, if the doors fail to close 3 times, the train is required to be taken out of service. On top of that, if the doors re-open, they all re-open, not just the one with the problem. I’m not a transit engineer, but given how much these trains cost it is inconceivable that it makes sense to re-open all doors (i.e., it’s not reasonable to say that the system to control the doors separately would be too expensive). Just re-open the one which is signalling a problem and try it again. Then the typical problem scenario would be 23/24 doors close and the remaining one opens and then closes again. Instead they all re-open, then maybe another one has a problem, then another, then the train goes out of service.

Additionally, the “3” seems arbitrary. If the driver presses a button indicating the problem was just somebody blocking the door, I don’t see why it has to count. It’s reasonable for a certain number of actual equipment failures to result in the train being taken out of service, but there is no specific limit on how often people might try to hold a door.

Meanwhile on our system there is no distinction between a door closing because it’s been a few seconds since it opened and it closing because the doors are being closed in order to prepare for departure. The first should not give the chime, and should re-open very easily if it detects any resistance at all or even an object in the way that isn’t touching it (like an elevator); whereas the second should give a chime and should be more insistent about closing (like a subway).

There does seem to be some poor engineering here. I will point out that our doors are far more complex than doors historically. They are flush with the outside of the vehicle, which improves efficiency, but this increases complexity because the door must close in two motions (sliding closed and then in). I believe there is probably a change in the door edge obstacle detection mechanism as well, this is probably one of the biggest challenges.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - trainspotter139 - 10-15-2019

The ION Update is out: https://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Council/Detail/2019-10-22-0930-Planning-and-Works-Committee/31c82830-5fa5-47cf-b1ce-aae70106aaf2#page=80 

Notable in the report is this table on boardings both system-wide and Central Transit Corridor. In addition, GRT is projected to have a fare revenue surplus of approximately $1.2 million by year end.
   

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jwilliamson - 10-15-2019

(10-15-2019, 04:24 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: The ION Update is out: https://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Council/Detail/2019-10-22-0930-Planning-and-Works-Committee/31c82830-5fa5-47cf-b1ce-aae70106aaf2#page=80 

Notable in the report is this table on boardings both system-wide and Central Transit Corridor. In addition, GRT is projected to have a fare revenue surplus of approximately $1.2 million by year end.

To clarify, fare revenue is $1.2 million over the prediction in the budget, not over expenses.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 10-16-2019

Neat photo from the Kitchener subreddit.

[Image: 4RjInfI.jpg]

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Rainrider22 - 10-16-2019

Great picture....Who would have thought 10 years ago that a picture like this could be captured in Kitchener !

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - danbrotherston - 10-16-2019

(10-16-2019, 07:21 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Great picture....Who would have thought 10 years ago that a picture like this could be captured in Kitchener !

I did. It's a major reason that I'm here now.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Spokes - 10-16-2019

Great picture.

Interesting, but not surprising, that the 7 sees such a ridership drop. That's a good thing, it was often extremely overcrowded